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It's time to replace TCP in the datacenter (2023)

(arxiv.org)
188 points ilove_banh_mi | 3 comments | 18 Nov 24 01:42 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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bmitc ◴[18 Nov 24 05:45 UTC] No.42170018[source]▶
Unrelated to this article, are there any reasons to use TCP/IP over WebSockets? The latter is such a clean, message-based interface that I don't see a reason to use TCP/IP.
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tacitusarc ◴[18 Nov 24 05:57 UTC] No.42170083[source]▶
Websockets is a layer on top of TCP/IP.
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bmitc ◴[18 Nov 24 06:13 UTC] No.42170167[source]▶
Yes, I know that WebSockets layer over TCP/IP. But that both misses the point and is part of the point. The reason that I ask is that WebSockets seem to almost always be used in the context of web applications. TCP/IP still seems to dominate control communications between hardware. But why not WebSockets? Almost everyone ends up building a message framing protocol on top of TCP/IP, so why not just use WebSockets which has bi-directional message framing built-in? I'm just not seeing why WebSockets aren't as ubiquitous as TCP/IP and only seem to be relegated to web applications.
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1. j16sdiz ◴[18 Nov 24 06:39 UTC] No.42170288[source]▶
WebSocket is fairly inefficient protocol. and it needs to deal with the upgrade from HTTP. and you still need to implement you app specific protocol. This is adding complexity without additional benefit

It make sense only if you have an websocket based stack and don't want to maintain a second protocol.

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2. imtringued ◴[18 Nov 24 11:40 UTC] No.42171569[source]▶
You can easily build a JSON based RPC protocol in a few minutes using WebSockets and be done. With raw TCP you're going to be spending a week doing something millions of other developers have done again and again in your own custom bespoke way that nobody else will understand.

Your second point is very dismissive. You're inserting random application requirements that the vast majority of application developers don't care about and then you claim that only in this situation do WebSockets make sense when in reality the vast majority of developers only use WebSockets and your suggestion involves the second unwanted protocol (e.g. the horror that is protobuffers and gRPC).

3. bmitc ◴[18 Nov 24 19:00 UTC] No.42175696[source]▶
> WebSocket is fairly inefficient protocol

In what way?

> This is adding complexity without additional benefit

I'm not sure that's a given. For example, WebSockets actually implement a message protocol. You have gauarantees that you sent or received the whole message. That may not be the case for TCP/IP, which is a byte streaming protocol.