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How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

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178 points rawgabbit | 4 comments | 18 Nov 24 04:02 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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infotainment ◴[18 Nov 24 04:44 UTC] No.42169771[source]▶
> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting."

Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win.

Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, it is literally illegal for you to quit prior to your contract expiry date. Hope you like that job you signed onto!

Obligatory disclaimer: IANAL

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jandrewrogers ◴[18 Nov 24 05:04 UTC] No.42169851[source]▶
The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides.

Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No one should discount the value of having the power to tell your employer to fuck off at a moment’s notice with no practical repercussions. No one should be required to stay in an abusive relationship a moment longer than they wish to.

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Iulioh ◴[18 Nov 24 06:25 UTC] No.42170221[source]▶
I think your opinion is influenced by probability being a well off professional in a field where you can easily find another job, maybe phisical location is not even that important.

Just an hypothesis.

I prefer the "chains on both sides" approach for the society.

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1. tdeck ◴[18 Nov 24 06:29 UTC] No.42170238[source]▶
It's a false dichotomy anyway. There's no law of nature that says an employee being able to quit at a moment's notice means the company should be allowed to, for example, fire someone with no cause on the spot.
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2. WalterBright ◴[18 Nov 24 07:05 UTC] No.42170405[source]▶
The asymmetry is an artificial distortion of the market, and like all such distortions, reduces overall productivity.
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3. colinb ◴[18 Nov 24 08:24 UTC] No.42170716[source]▶
Asymmetrical relationships are baked into employment. Indeed, that’s the very basis of the idea. Labour laws, unions etc came into existence to change that balance of power. Without them, no paid holiday, no proper weekend, no pension. All of these things reduce productivity.

The purpose of our lives is not productivity. (I have no idea what it might be, but that’s a different thread)

Look, I lead very comfortable life compared to most. Many of the people here are like me, and I dare say, you. But we’re a blip in history. And most of that history hasn’t been particularly kind to people who weren’t born to wealth. I wish more folks internalised that lesson.

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4. WalterBright ◴[18 Nov 24 08:58 UTC] No.42170850{3}[source]▶
> Asymmetrical relationships are baked into employment.

If you have ever employed people (I have), it'd be clear that isn't true. You have no actual power over them. You cannot make them come to work. You cannot make them do anything at all. They can get up and leave at any moment, and you can do nothing.

You know who can do that? The military. If you don't follow orders, into the brig you go. They can even execute you.

> The purpose of our lives is not productivity.

Productivity gives us the amazing high standard of living we enjoy today.

> most of that history hasn’t been particularly kind to people who weren’t born to wealth

Freedom produced prosperity which changed all that for the better. Freedom is the greatest human invention ever.

An employer is not the parent of the employees. It's a transaction - trading labor for money. Just like you buying donuts at the store. If you buy donuts from them daily, should you be forced to continue buying donuts from them? Of course not.

Have you ever hired a service to mow your lawn? When you're unhappy with them, do you cease the relationship? Or do you now owe them your continuing business?