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116 points wslh | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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Simon_ORourke ◴[] No.42162689[source]
Not putting too fine a point on it, but Gandhi's non-violent resistance worked in the India of his time, because the British wanted both the labor and the natural resources, and killing all the former would simply have cost them.

In Gaza and Ukraine right now, the colonial powers simply want the territory, and are largely indifferent or are openly hostile to the continued physical existence of the people who live there.

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wslh ◴[] No.42164064[source]
Please develop your idea about Israel being a colonial power.
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talldayo ◴[] No.42167019[source]
In rough chronological arrangement:

- The Balfour declaration, announced by a colonial power without permission or proofreading from the natives or landowners

- The consequential Arab-Israeli war

- Operation Cast Thy Bread and the introduction of ethnically targeted chemical warfare funded by the government

- The 70 collective civilian casualties from Qibya being raided by IDF

- The 400 collective civilian casualties from Rafah and Khan Yunis being raided by IDF

- Israel's routine violations of the 1949 Armistice Agreements throughout the 1950s

- The Six Day War's extended annexations and territorial reparations

- The passing of the Golan Heights law and the consequential defense of it despite international outcry

- The decades-long occupation of Lebanon and (entirely accidental) formation of Hezbollah

- The Ibrahim al-Maqadma Mosque bombing and other effects of "Dahieh Doctrine" as applied to civilian populations

- The "Blue Line" and subsequent disagreements concerning it crossing territory Israel does not possess

- The continued government support of the illegal and internationally disavowed settlement of northern Israel

Unfortunately, my family has lived too close to this conflict for a comfortable accounting. Israel' history is colonial, from the moment they were issued land by Britain (anyone remember the Raj?), to the modern day where they deploy the IDF to defend illegal settlements. Except for the US and Israel's own objections, those settled areas are unanimously not acknowledged as Israeli territory by the UN and EU.

Therefore, Israel is a colonial power. You can argue that they're one of the good colonizers if you want, but you'll need some pretty convincing evidence to justify 70 years of nationalism-fueled bloodshed concerning territories that were never part of their nation in the first place. Most Americans with internet access have started to realize that they can only support this occupation because it inherently necessitates Israel relying on American imported weapons. It's becoming a second "Pakistan situation" very quickly, and politicians are starting to realize it.

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wslh ◴[] No.42167077[source]
I think you forgot thousands of history years before that. Who are the natives? If someone attacked my family in October 7th and much previous to that I will return fire without hesitation, like any nation in the world.

Surprisingly you haven't mentioned the "recent" Oslo Accords. Do you think that Israel (colonial or not) should exist?

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talldayo ◴[] No.42167296[source]
Nothing you just said refutes the current colonial status of the Israeli state and their active defense of internationally abhorred occupations. My intention isn't to defame anyone with emotional candor, but rather to shine a light on the intractable fact that the Golan Heights are an illegally occupied colony, defended by Israeli conscripts and shielded from controversy with the threat of American soft-power.

You asked how exactly Israel is a colony, and I provided a complete and internationally agreed-upon accounting of why that is considered the case. If you feel justified in killing people that intrude upon Israel without the intention of living there peacefully, then you know precisely how the natives felt when they were targeted and attacked by national defense forces at a time when Israel hardly existed.

It's by no fault of today's Israelis that they live in such a terrible place. However, it is their decision to deny their sins (the occupations) and the world will judge them in accordance with those choices. Israel can still redeem itself by rejecting the nationalist notion of perpetually occupying territory they do not legally possess. It is a necessary precondition to meaningful liberal development of the Levant - the status quo is a nightmare scenario.

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wslh ◴[] No.42167643[source]
It takes two to tango: a two state solution was always supported by Israelis and Jewish people around the world.
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talldayo ◴[] No.42167728[source]
I don't disagree. But two wrongs don't add up to one right, so nobody is really looking at the current situation as a net-positive. Israel is a colonial state that currently has a long way to go in renouncing the territory they do not rightfully own. It's the majority opinion, not an extremist or misconstrued take. Nobody ever had to "develop the idea" because it has been said by every single country that is not Israel or the United States.
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wslh ◴[] No.42167810[source]
Israel is not a member of the ICC, am I right?
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1. talldayo ◴[] No.42167827[source]
Well, let it never be said that I didn't attempt to explain it in good faith.
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2. wslh ◴[] No.42167901[source]
I appreciate that.