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troad ◴[] No.42161064[source]
I think it's telling that whenever someone raises concerns about any element of Rust, no matter how constructively, they're always met with a wall of "you must not truly get the borrow checker," or "you're using Rust wrong," or "stop trying to write <C/C++/Java/etc> in Rust!", usually with zero evidence that that is in fact what is happening. There's never anything to improve on Rust, it's always user error / a skill issue. If there ever surfaces any audio of Linus Torvalds and Ken Thompson discussing the pros and cons of the borrow checker, I expect a sea of patronising anime avatars to show up, seeking to explain Rust's invention of the concept of ownership to them.

Rust is really nifty, but there are still (many) things that could be improved in Rust, and we'd all benefit from more competition in this space, including Rust! This is not a zero sum game.

Honestly, I also think many people just want a nice ML-like with a good packaging story, and just put up with the borrow checker to get friendly C-like syntax for the Option monad, sum types with exhaustive matching, etc. This is a use case that could very much benefit from a competitor with a more conventional memory model.

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NoboruWataya ◴[] No.42161186[source]
No one thinks there's nothing to improve in Rust, there are lots of features it is missing, some of which are in nightly or on the roadmap. But the borrow checker and the concepts that underpin it are pretty fundamental to Rust and what separates it from other languages. If you like Rust except for the borrow checker, then I would think you don't really like Rust.
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1. troad ◴[] No.42161361[source]
> If you like Rust except for the borrow checker, then I would think you don't really like Rust.

The sentence in my original post that this addresses is supportive of the emergence of an alternative language to Rust for people with this use case, so I think we're just agreeing. (Although I wouldn't go so far as to tell others what they do or do not like based on my own ideas of what is essential and what isn't.)