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462 points pieterr | 9 comments | | HN request time: 1.028s | source | bottom
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__turbobrew__ ◴[] No.42159121[source]
It’s interesting, SICP and other many other “classic” texts talk about designing programs, but these days I think the much more important skill is designing systems.

I don’t know if distributed systems is consider part of “Computer Science” but it is a much more common problem that I see needs to be solved.

I try to write systems in the simplest way possible and then use observability tools to figure out where the design is deficient and then maybe I will pull out a data structure or some other “computer sciency” thing to solve that problem. It turns out that big O notation and runtime complexity doesn’t matter the majority of the time and you can solve most problems with arrays and fast CPUs. And even when you have runtime problems you should profile the program to find the hot spots.

What computer science doesn’t teach you is how memory caching works in CPUs. Your fancy graph algorithm may have good runtime complexity but it completely hoses the CPU cache and you may have been able to go faster with an array with good cache usage.

The much more common problems I have is how to deal with fault tolerance, correctness in distributed locks and queues, and system scalability.

Maybe I am just biased because I have a computer/electrical engineering background.

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ozim ◴[] No.42160025[source]
Well CS and software dev in trenches moved a bit.

There are still jobs where people write frameworks, database engines or version control tools. Those jobs require heavy CS and algorithms, data structures day to day. But there are less of those jobs nowadays as no one is implementing db engine for their app they just use Postgres.

Other jobs that is vast majority is dealing with implementing business logic. Using database with understanding how it works in details is of course going to produce better outcomes. Yet one still can produce great amount of working software without knowing how indexes are stored on disk.

Also a lot of CS graduates fell into a trap where they think their job is to write a framework - where in reality they should just use frameworks and implement business logic- while using CS background to fully understand frameworks already existing.

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1. aleph_minus_one ◴[] No.42160291[source]
> while using CS background to fully understand frameworks already existing.

Most frameworks today are so complicated that you typically cannot understand them fully, and even understanding them somewhat partially is more than a full-time job.

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2. hbbio ◴[] No.42161127[source]
Last week, after reading Methodology is bullshit here, this was my first thought!

https://x.com/henri__OK/status/1854813243916882365

3. porknubbins ◴[] No.42161755[source]
I wish someone told me this back when I was trying to get a programming job as a self taught programmer. I would do things like try to build a simple React clone thinking it would help me overcome imposter syndrome to fully understand things from the base up, but it was pretty futile because no one really has time to wrap their head around something that big unless they are paid full time to do it.
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6. eastbound ◴[] No.42163097[source]
I have a saying that program's complexity is always exactly equal to the human-intelligible complexity + 1.

If not, the developer would add one more feature. It is due to the entirely human-made aspect of this discipline.

7. apwell23 ◴[] No.42163281[source]
i did build a react clone in a long weekend. but I built the first 90% that takes 10% of the time and not the last 10% that takes 90% of time.
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8. ozim ◴[] No.42163969[source]
You don't have to understand them fully to make use of them. One has to understand design patterns and underlying reasoning, understand context of the framework like for example if it is JS framework that it runs in browser to understand which parts are "because we are running in the browser" vs "that is just why framework implemented it" and if it is Typescript then how it blends into that mix.

Then for any details or unexpected behavior knowing where to look in documentation.

9. ◴[] No.42180485{3}[source]