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Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

(arxiv.org)
391 points JSeymourATL | 1 comments | 14 Nov 24 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 0.2s | source
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shmatt ◴[14 Nov 24 14:56 UTC] No.42136701[source]▶
I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job

The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So while I will deny their green card application and not submit it, I also won’t hire the interviewee

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indoordin0saur ◴[14 Nov 24 15:05 UTC] No.42136823[source]▶
Wait, this isn't clear to me. Are the interviewees citizens? So you're interviewing citizens to prove that there aren't any who can fill your jobs but even when they clearly could fill the job you don't hire them? Seems like the requirement of proving "there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job" is going to be near impossible for the government to enforce
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cj ◴[14 Nov 24 15:12 UTC] No.42136924[source]▶
At the last startup I worked at, our CTO was on a visa.

To satisfy the "no one in the US can fill the CTO role", they took out an advertisement in a San Francisco newspaper classifieds so they had evidence that they attempted to find a US citizen / permanent resident CTO.

Obviously there were no applicants.

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dec0dedab0de ◴[14 Nov 24 15:31 UTC] No.42137163[source]▶
CTO actually makes sense for an h1b though, it’s a high paying job that can depend greatly on the technical and creative skills of the individual and how they mesh with the company.

The problem is when it’s someone pumping out code, or doing tech support for half the cost of the local competition.

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bluefirebrand ◴[14 Nov 24 15:46 UTC] No.42137349[source]▶
No, this is backwards

CTO is not such an exceptional role that you can convince me that a company couldn't find a single person in America who would be qualified to take it

It's also a highly sought after role, so people would generally be willing to relocate for a role like that

H1Bs are designed to fill labour shortages, where your local labour market is saturated and you are struggling to find local talent or attract talent from further away, so you can import workers

Using a visa designed to fill labour shortages for an executive position like CTO is frankly an abuse of the system

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returningfory2 ◴[14 Nov 24 16:15 UTC] No.42137667[source]▶
But arguably any labor shortage can be fixed by just having way higher wages.

Like if Google is struggling to hire L3 entry level engineers, can't they just offer $1 million/year salary? Then of course they will get the people they want.

To me, the point of H-1B and similar programs isn't "we can't get the individual staff we need". It's rather that at a society-wide level, having more software engineers at an overall lower salary can be more beneficial to the country than fewer engineers at a higher salary. And I feel that the success of Silicon Valley kind of shows this: if we didn't have any immigrants to the US, maybe the salaries would have been higher, but there is simply no chance SV would have reached the scale it has.

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lotsofpulp ◴[14 Nov 24 16:19 UTC] No.42137718[source]▶
> It's rather that at a society-wide level, having more software engineers at an overall lower salary can be more beneficial to the country than fewer engineers at a higher salary.

Beneficial to owners of capital in said country. Not so beneficial to non owners of capital (also usually labor sellers) in said country.

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s1artibartfast ◴[14 Nov 24 16:59 UTC] No.42138203[source]▶
It's not so binary. Economic growth and prosperity does benefit a broad swath of society.
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mistrial9 ◴[14 Nov 24 17:59 UTC] No.42139048[source]▶
btw the actual couch used by Marie Antionette is now on display at the San Francisco Legion of Honor.. a very expensive couch! at least a dozen people must have benefited economically from that couch.
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s1artibartfast ◴[14 Nov 24 18:16 UTC] No.42139283[source]▶
They most certainly did! However, that is a pretty tortured comparison if that was the case.

I think I would be harder to make such a cynical zing about the net benefit of allowing 10,000 doctors to immigrate.

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lotsofpulp ◴[14 Nov 24 18:24 UTC] No.42139383[source]▶
That’s true, but in reality, the US chains the engineers and doctors with the specter of losing their visa and arduous paperwork over their head so that they are coerced into selling their labor at an even lower price.
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s1artibartfast ◴[14 Nov 24 18:43 UTC] No.42139611[source]▶
I'm the first to admit it isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean there is no net benefit. hundreds of thousands of people are paid market wages on H1B visas and many get green cards. On balance, this is good for consumers and citizens.

I feel like people have a gut reaction to injustice and harm where they want to trash the whole system, not realizing that would be an even greater injustice and harm.

It is a counterproductive distraction to real change and improvement. It just scratches the emotional itch of moral outrage and superiority.

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1. mistrial9 ◴[16 Nov 24 00:15 UTC] No.42152889[source]▶
not to dispute but rather to refine.. go to a third order effect. Imagine that Injustice is remedied (somehow involving policy), negotiations with the growing remedy system rely on growth of remedy so cleverly take advantage of the shared desire for remedy and easy public political speech win of emphasizing remedy, such that negotiations then stretch out the timeline, and add a tax, and some supervisory positions with regulatory oversight in yet another group, to be fair.. the remedy system is less remedy and more frameworks.. the Iron Law of Bureaucracy sets in.. other noise or inefficiencies or internal contradictions, grow.

Private companies play their part in implementing this remedy of Injustice and Good Policy, yet private companies exist to profit first and foremost. Management practices of labor have a sordid history, going way back.. A worker in a private company with a lottery work permit must play out the life under management in that company, whatever that may be.. And that management will also change, not always for the better.

Now its 2024.....