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Please stop the coding challenges

(blackentropy.bearblog.dev)
261 points CrazyEmi | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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CharlieDigital ◴[] No.42148313[source]
A small anecdote.

A partner of a friend quit their job earlier this year. They then took 4-6 weeks to prepare for each interview with Big Tech companies (4-6 weeks for Meta, 4-6 weeks for Stripe, etc.). Along the way, they also took random interviews just to practice and build muscle memory. They would grind leetcode several hours a day after researching which questions were likely to be encountered at each Big Tech.

This paid off and they accepted an offer for L6/staff at a MAANG.

Talked to them this week (haven't even started the new role) and they've already forgotten the details of most of what was practiced. They said that the hardest part was studying for the system design portion because they did not have experience with system design...but now made staff eng. at a MAANG. IRL, this individual is a good but not exceptional engineer having worked with them on a small project.

Wild; absolutely wild and I feel like explains a lot of the boom and bust hiring cycles. When I watch some of the system design interview prep videos, it's just a script. You'll go into the call and all you need to do is largely follow the script. It doesn't matter if you've actually designed similar or more complex systems; the point of the system design interview is apparently "do you know the script"?

Watch these two back to back at 2x speed and marvel at how much of this is executed like a script:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_qu1F9BXow

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K-eupuDVEc

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mekoka ◴[] No.42148639[source]
> IRL, this individual is a good but not exceptional engineer having worked with them on a small project.

Have you worked with them since they went through this regiment? Doing a DS&A coding problem regiment + system design will change you as an engineer. You might be surprised how good they've become.

Also they say they've forgotten. But if they were able to get that position, they probably could do medium level leetcode problems. So, I'd doubt they've forgotten all of it. I'm pretty sure they'd still be able to solve easy level problems, which most people can't solve off the cuff. They also probably still know the complexity of a bunch of essential backend operations (search, sort, array and hash lookups, tree & graph traversals, etc).

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swatcoder ◴[] No.42149049[source]
No home study grind on puzzle problems is a substitute for years of practical experience, which is what most teams actually hope for in their higher-level engineers.

The point is not that the friend didn't pick up some implicit knowledge or become a sharper engineer than they were before grinding, it's that by exploiting the screening strategy, they got placed into a job they're not truly qualified for.

Are they bright enough to fake it until they make it? Maybe, but that's not going to be the case for many of the countless placements that were made like this, and hints at why both product and software quality is in bad shape these days.

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1. mplewis ◴[] No.42149545[source]
How is one supposed to get a job that requires years of practical experience if all jobs require years of practical experience?
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2. swatcoder ◴[] No.42149643[source]
You may remember these details from the GP comment and my own:

> L6/staff

> higher-level engineers

Traditionally, one would work up to senior roles over the course of one's career, often by pursuing internal opportunities to learn and exercise new skills within one's current role before applying for new roles that rely on those now-practiced skills.

Placing into senior roles because you did well at Stanford, spent a couple years writing CRUD apps, and then grinded puzzles for a couple months is inevitably something that happens when the industry needs to fill more senior roles than there are engineers with suitable experience, but it's not a healthy phenomenon and definitely shouldn't be treated as the norm.