Most active commenters

    ←back to thread

    Please stop the coding challenges

    (blackentropy.bearblog.dev)
    261 points CrazyEmi | 11 comments | 15 Nov 24 15:32 UTC | HN request time: 1.114s | source | bottom
    Show context
    CharlieDigital ◴[15 Nov 24 16:21 UTC] No.42148313[source]▶
    A small anecdote.

    A partner of a friend quit their job earlier this year. They then took 4-6 weeks to prepare for each interview with Big Tech companies (4-6 weeks for Meta, 4-6 weeks for Stripe, etc.). Along the way, they also took random interviews just to practice and build muscle memory. They would grind leetcode several hours a day after researching which questions were likely to be encountered at each Big Tech.

    This paid off and they accepted an offer for L6/staff at a MAANG.

    Talked to them this week (haven't even started the new role) and they've already forgotten the details of most of what was practiced. They said that the hardest part was studying for the system design portion because they did not have experience with system design...but now made staff eng. at a MAANG. IRL, this individual is a good but not exceptional engineer having worked with them on a small project.

    Wild; absolutely wild and I feel like explains a lot of the boom and bust hiring cycles. When I watch some of the system design interview prep videos, it's just a script. You'll go into the call and all you need to do is largely follow the script. It doesn't matter if you've actually designed similar or more complex systems; the point of the system design interview is apparently "do you know the script"?

    Watch these two back to back at 2x speed and marvel at how much of this is executed like a script:

    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_qu1F9BXow

    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K-eupuDVEc

    replies(14): >>42148339 #>>42148377 #>>42148639 #>>42149124 #>>42149251 #>>42149406 #>>42149518 #>>42149554 #>>42149705 #>>42149979 #>>42150271 #>>42150314 #>>42151333 #>>42151610 #
    paxys ◴[15 Nov 24 16:24 UTC] No.42148339[source]▶
    Sounds like the system worked exactly as intended then. A seemingly smart person got a good job. What's the problem with this story exactly?
    replies(7): >>42148421 #>>42148466 #>>42148494 #>>42149125 #>>42149358 #>>42149519 #>>42151724 #
    1. dmvdoug ◴[15 Nov 24 16:40 UTC] No.42148494[source]▶
    It’s like the bar exam for lawyers. It bears absolutely no relationship whatsoever to the actual job and the work you will be doing. It’s a pointless ritual. And the point of the above story is that the person performed the ritual and then promptly forgot all the words once they succeeded. It illustrates the pointlessness.
    replies(2): >>42148586 #>>42150979 #
    2. ForHackernews ◴[15 Nov 24 16:50 UTC] No.42148586[source]▶
    It's not a pointless ritual. It tests for determination, grit, and willingness to grind on difficult, frustrating and ultimately value-free tasks.

    All crucial skills in the modern technology or legal workplace.

    replies(5): >>42148705 #>>42148998 #>>42149033 #>>42149034 #>>42149077 #
    3. dmvdoug ◴[15 Nov 24 17:05 UTC] No.42148705[source]▶
    I was a lawyer. I passed the bar exam (first try, no less). I practiced. The bar exam does none of what you claimed for it. Now, I offered it here as an analogy, but I am not a software developer. It just sounded akin to what I do know from my own experience and from talking to literally hundreds of other lawyers, law school professors, judges and their clerks. So maybe it’s not a good analogy to software development. I don’t know.
    4. tshaddox ◴[15 Nov 24 17:35 UTC] No.42148998[source]▶
    And by that argument, difficult big tech system design interviews are interchangeable with bar examinations.
    replies(1): >>42151765 #
    5. pessimizer ◴[15 Nov 24 17:38 UTC] No.42149033[source]▶
    > It's not a pointless ritual. It tests for determination, grit, and willingness to grind on difficult, frustrating and ultimately value-free tasks.

    This is what people say whenever one criticizes the methodology of any test. They say that the real test was actually the friends we made along the way. The real test was the degree to which you are willing to humiliate yourself, or to accomplish things you don't understand the purpose of, or to accomplish things that you do understand the purpose of but disagree with logically or morally.

    We filter for the worst, most damaged, and most desperate people.

    replies(1): >>42149276 #
    6. vharuck ◴[15 Nov 24 17:38 UTC] No.42149034[source]▶
    I feel like you forgot the "/sarcasm" at the end.
    7. Apocryphon ◴[15 Nov 24 17:41 UTC] No.42149077[source]▶
    At least you only have to pass the bar once.
    replies(1): >>42154671 #
    8. Y_Y ◴[15 Nov 24 18:00 UTC] No.42149276{3}[source]▶
    > We filter for the worst, most damaged, and most desperate people.

    These are probably the best candidates, from the perspective of a manager who is concerned with stability and not rocking the boat, at the cost of results and workplace quality.

    9. jjav ◴[15 Nov 24 21:00 UTC] No.42150979[source]▶
    > It’s like the bar exam for lawyers.

    At least lawyers don't have to take the bar every other year for the rest of their careers.

    10. raydev ◴[15 Nov 24 22:08 UTC] No.42151765{3}[source]▶
    I actually think we should keep the system design interviews because they are closer to what I've actually experienced and researched in service of my work.

    The leetcodes feel completely unrelated.

    11. thaumasiotes ◴[16 Nov 24 05:56 UTC] No.42154671{3}[source]▶
    Unless you move.