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    243 points Jimmc414 | 35 comments | | HN request time: 1.837s | source | bottom
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    seydor ◴[] No.42130473[source]
    Yann Lecun is also telling everyone on Twitter very loudly that he won't be posting on Twitter.

    The Guardian in another article explains that they are annoyed because Musk used twitter to promote his preferred candidate.

    The Guardian itself used their own platform to publicly endorse Harris.

    This deja-vu of childish antics is just comical in 2024

    replies(18): >>42130525 #>>42130571 #>>42130597 #>>42130616 #>>42130620 #>>42130694 #>>42130705 #>>42130752 #>>42130802 #>>42130828 #>>42130857 #>>42130892 #>>42130907 #>>42131498 #>>42131663 #>>42131841 #>>42132444 #>>42134987 #
    1. jmull ◴[] No.42130616[source]
    Is it "childish antics" for the Guardian to have their own political viewpoint?

    Musk can have a preferred candidate and political stance. And he can run Twitter accordingly.

    The Guardian can have a preferred candidate and political stance. And they can choose the platforms they use accordingly.

    It all seems perfectly reasonable to me.

    replies(7): >>42130657 #>>42130669 #>>42130677 #>>42130713 #>>42130849 #>>42130922 #>>42135808 #
    2. hulitu ◴[] No.42130657[source]
    > Is it "childish antics" for the Guardian to have their own political viewpoint?

    When a journal is biased... it is biased.

    Objectivism is one thing. Bias is another. Bias at the US elections shit is just another level.

    replies(1): >>42130675 #
    3. wtcactus ◴[] No.42130669[source]
    It’s childish antics to attack a media platform for taking a political position, when they also openly and covertly took a political position. It just happened to be the opposite political position.
    4. the_mitsuhiko ◴[] No.42130675[source]
    > When a journal is biased... it is biased.

    I would like to know which newspaper or journal is not biased.

    replies(4): >>42130757 #>>42130789 #>>42130858 #>>42130875 #
    5. seydor ◴[] No.42130677[source]
    Antics refers to the passiveaggressiveness.

    It remains to be seen what will happen if Trump goes back to posting on twitter

    replies(2): >>42130855 #>>42131131 #
    6. dustedcodes ◴[] No.42130713[source]
    It only seems reasonable until this thinking eventually gets you to the point where the next platform you choose to leave is called Earth. It's pretty dumb because there is nothing like X at the moment. Just for context, the Guardian had almost 11 million followers on X and Bluesky has only just crossed 15 million total users, of which many signed up months ago when it was opened to the public and never logged back in since again.
    replies(2): >>42130791 #>>42130830 #
    7. secstate ◴[] No.42130757{3}[source]
    This. Goddamn am I sick of people claiming bias on a news organization with tacit expectation that somewhere the platonic form of news information exists which is objectively true and unbiased.

    It does not exist, it never will exist, and if Serenity has taught us anything, it's that you can't stop the signal, Mal.

    replies(2): >>42130779 #>>42130980 #
    8. oneeyedpigeon ◴[] No.42130779{4}[source]
    I remembering learning at school, at about the age of 12, that all sources are biased.
    9. WalterBright ◴[] No.42130789{3}[source]
    They all are. But they can do something like Firing Line, where people of opposing viewpoints are invited to debate. The editorial board can also hire a cross section of political views.
    replies(2): >>42130865 #>>42131133 #
    10. margalabargala ◴[] No.42130791[source]
    > eventually gets you to the point where the next platform you choose to leave is called Earth

    On the other hand, that's the express goal of the owner of X.

    11. stonogo ◴[] No.42130830[source]
    And who exactly controls the Earth, such that I would want to leave the platform due to mismanagement?

    Also, the "nothing else is like twitter" argument is both wrong (lots of social media platforms are bigger) and irrelevant (it assumes that having something like twitter is a net positive -- the validity of which assumption I am not convinced).

    12. n0id34 ◴[] No.42130849[source]
    It's ridiculous for any media to have a political bias, defeats the entire purpose of the media if it's already skewed when it's consumed.
    replies(4): >>42130889 #>>42130893 #>>42130917 #>>42131182 #
    13. davorak ◴[] No.42130855[source]
    Normally when I think of passive aggressiveness I think of a contradiction in between what someone says and what they mean or only communicating something negative indirectly rather than directly.

    The Guardian is being direct as far as I can tell about what they do not like and why they are leaving.

    14. seneca ◴[] No.42130858{3}[source]
    This lazy "everyone is bias, therefore bias doesn't exist" argument is nonsense, and is just FUD thrown about to cover for extremists when people point out their extremism.

    Many news organizations pursue as unbiased a voice as they can. The Guardian is not one of them. Here's an organization attempting an objective rating of media bias, if you're actually interested in the topic: https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

    replies(2): >>42130947 #>>42130988 #
    15. the_mitsuhiko ◴[] No.42130865{4}[source]
    While possible it does not absolve the reader of ensuring that they are consuming information from a range of sources.
    16. DrBazza ◴[] No.42130875{3}[source]
    This may help

    https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/

    17. SauciestGNU ◴[] No.42130889[source]
    Journalism should have a bias for the truth. But one political camp has spent decades working the refs, calling truth-telling "bias", and even building parallel media ecosystems that project a message completely detached from factual reality. I don't know how we come back from this.
    replies(2): >>42130939 #>>42130966 #
    18. threatofrain ◴[] No.42130893[source]
    What if I specifically want to consume media that is biased towards technological exploration and advancement?
    replies(1): >>42131471 #
    19. pharrington ◴[] No.42130917[source]
    There's no such thing as unbiased media. The inescapabilty of bias isn't a problem - the problems are undue bias, lying about one's bias, and letting your bias erode journalistic integrity.

    (edited to add last part about journalistic integrity)

    20. booleandilemma ◴[] No.42130922[source]
    I think the parent is saying that the guardian is being hypocritical.
    21. booleandilemma ◴[] No.42130939{3}[source]
    Your comment is so vague I can't tell which political camp you're talking about. I suspect you'll get upvotes from all sides :)
    22. oneeyedpigeon ◴[] No.42130947{4}[source]
    That chart doesn't show any one organisation being 'less biased' than any other. It shows every organisation being biased in a different direction. Centrism is no 'less biased' than the far left or the far right.
    23. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42130966{3}[source]
    It will never not be wild to me that vast swathes of the American public consume Fox News as news when Fox itself asserted it was merely "entertainment" in court documents/arguments and all but called their own audience idiots for believing what they say, and they somehow are still operating.

    That is commitment to maintaining your echo chamber.

    24. jay_kyburz ◴[] No.42130980{4}[source]
    Yes but, a new organization should at least _strive_ to be objective, even if the journalists have subconscious bias.

    If you lean in to your biases you stop being news and start being entertainment.

    replies(1): >>42131130 #
    25. pharrington ◴[] No.42130988{4}[source]
    The poster never implied that bias's ubiquity means bias doesn't exist.
    26. cguess ◴[] No.42131130{5}[source]
    "Reality has a well-known liberal bias" There's a difference between being objective and being unbiased.
    replies(1): >>42132920 #
    27. UncleOxidant ◴[] No.42131131[source]
    > It remains to be seen what will happen if Trump goes back to posting on twitter

    I have a strong suspicion that he will, but it'll be because "Truth" Social and Xitter have merged. They're pretty much both the same thing now so why not merge? It would also be a way for Musk to pass a lot of $$$ to Trump.

    28. amrocha ◴[] No.42131133{4}[source]
    Journalism’s responsibility is to the truth, not to some perceived notion of fairness. The right in the US has been living in their own reality for a while now. Media does not owe liars any time of day.

    Don’t take this to mean the democrats are the left and aren’t guilty of the same thing. They’re also right wing, and they lie, but to a lesser extent.

    29. gerdesj ◴[] No.42131182[source]
    Let's go back say 40 odd years. I'm from the UK.

    Back then "media" largely consisted of three, soon to be four channels on your analogue TV and a lot of newspapers and magazines. The media was largely passive except for the letters pages, which mostly featured real people, and the likes of "Readers's Wives" which was mostly bollocks (quite literally).

    If we look at the newspapers back then: they all had a clear and well known set of biases - political and otherwise.

    The Times was Conservative, so was the Torygraph (Telegraph). The Grauniad (Guardian - yes, that one) was unable to employ editors capable of effective proof-reading. The Independent was not really independent and the Sun and Mirror published pictures of young ladies alongside their biting political satire. The Sunday Sport had even more piccies of scantily clad young ladies and was barking mad - "Elvis piloted Lancaster bomber found on Moon".

    We also had and still have titles such as "Private Eye", who are generally acknowledged to be proper journo outlets.

    The media has always had a bias and it was always accepted that you took multiple papers, and watched the BBC and ITN News, if you wanted to appear to have a balanced view and at least appear to be well informed. Note that we forked out dosh for those papers and the UK TV license fee is not trivial.

    Back in the day, I didn't have a bunch of Russians trying to spin crap at my front door, pretending to be Jehovah's Witnesses or double glazing salesmen or my work colleague. They bought peerages and sat in the House of Lords or footie teams, but at least they were mostly at a distance! Nowadays the buggers are trying to hack my telly.

    replies(1): >>42131874 #
    30. ebcode ◴[] No.42131471{3}[source]
    then you're on the right website! ...though maybe not in the right thread...
    31. wyclif ◴[] No.42131874{3}[source]
    This is a great comment. It was really the same kind of landscape in US media, only without the topless women.

    NYT, WaPo, Newsweek et al. could be counted on as being liberal, while Wall Street Journal and the New York Post were popular conservative options. You also had a wide range of commentary on the telly, including Firing Line and the McLaughlin Group.

    32. jay_kyburz ◴[] No.42132920{6}[source]
    wtf. Dictionary.com says "Objective most commonly means not influenced by an individual’s personal viewpoint—unbiased (or at least attempting to be unbiased). It’s often used to describe things like observations, decisions, or reports that are based on an unbiased analysis."

    https://www.dictionary.com/e/subjective-vs-objective/

    I'm not sure why you quoted it, but "Reality has a well-known liberal bias" is a joke you make at the expense of right wing people for not believing in reality.

    replies(2): >>42135880 #>>42137600 #
    33. tim333 ◴[] No.42135808[source]
    >Musk can have a preferred candidate and political stance. And he can run Twitter accordingly

    Except he'll be going up against Musk 2022 and his tweet below:

    >For Twitter to deserve public trust, it must be politically neutral, which effectively means upsetting the far right and the far left equally

    34. tim333 ◴[] No.42135880{7}[source]
    By the way, not knowing the history of the reality thing I looked it up - it came from a Colbert joke about W Bush's popularity https://youtu.be/UwLjK9LFpeo
    35. consteval ◴[] No.42137600{7}[source]
    What they mean is that if you approach some issues with "[no influence] by [your] individual personal viewpoint" you end up running into a leftist or slightly moderate viewpoint.

    For example, take climate change. If you come at it looking only at the facts, you'll recognize we need more renewable energy and climate change poses a threat. Donald Trump, to contrast, in intending to put more money on oil and gas and remove subsidies for renewable energy.

    Or, if you prefer, the economy. It's more or less undisputed that tariffs will hurt the GDP and overall economy of the US. However, Donald Trump claims tariffs will help the US economy.

    Or, perhaps what the GOP has treasured most of all these past few years, the culture war. For example, gender-neutral bathrooms. From a neutral perspective, forcing trans people to use the bathroom of their assigned gender at birth will backfire tremendously. Instead of having trans women in women's restrooms, now you will have big burly and hairy trans men. Or look at gender affirming care, we have statistics about gender affirming care lowering the risk of suicide. But the right claims gender affirming care causes suicide and has a high regret rate.

    Those are just a few examples, but if you look at popular conservative policies and then try to reason about them you kind of hit a wall.