←back to thread

346 points obscurette | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.595s | source
Show context
brainwipe ◴[] No.42116539[source]
IMO education is still built around Victorian structures and needs to be reworked from examinations downwards. Examinations are an exercise in being good at examinations, not proficiency in the subject. Once you strip that away the you wind back all the structures that feed it. You can see this working at schools designed for the neuro diverse. Those students simply can't sit and listen to a teacher all day, so each student learns in their own way and are better of for it.

Arguing about the effectiveness of edtech is like complaining there wasn't a viola on the Titanic's band.

replies(5): >>42116594 #>>42116766 #>>42117374 #>>42118655 #>>42133393 #
LargeWu ◴[] No.42116594[source]
What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency? If an exam is well designed, the student will need to figure out what is being asked and use their mastery to provide an answer.
replies(5): >>42116684 #>>42116832 #>>42116935 #>>42117077 #>>42117535 #
csa ◴[] No.42116832[source]
> What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency

Not op, but a few examples:

1. Test structures that reward good time management. The paper SAT is a good example of this. The early items in a section are (were?) easy, the middle items were medium difficulty, and the toughest items were towards the end. A good test take would manage their time so that they spent the most amount of time on questions that could improve their scores — later questions for high achievers, but the middle questions for folks who were missing a lot of questions in that range.

2. Test structures that reward endurance. Again, SAT is a good example. How often have examinees sat down in a multi-hour high-stakes testing situation before taking the SAT. “Not often enough to feel comfortable” is usually the answer. I have taken some foreign language proficiency tests that were also multi-hour long endeavors. I practiced answer old exam questions in a testing environment, so the tests were easy for me. Some of my peers did not, and fatigue seemed to be a part of their challenge.

3. I took some “issue spotter” tests in college. I had never heard of or seen an issue spotter test before. I bombed my first one. My professor kindly walked me through things he knew I knew the answers to that would what given me credit. I aced all future issue-spotter exams. Side note: familiarity with test/question format seems to matter for better students, but it largely doesn’t for unmotivated students. Many studies on familiarity with test/question format show no correlation, but my personal experience (as a test giver) is that this is due to lumping the unmotivated and ambivalent examinees with the folks who notice, care, and take action.

There are many more answers to your question, but the above are few decent examples.

replies(2): >>42116975 #>>42117345 #
1. Retric ◴[] No.42116975[source]
I think test prep allowing people to increase SAT scores is actually a useful feature not a bug.

If you’re the kind of person who’s going to put extra effort to add a few points to your results, you are also the kind of person more likely to do well in collage classes.

replies(3): >>42117149 #>>42117519 #>>42117585 #
2. csa ◴[] No.42117149[source]
I agree in general with what your idea, but this sort of assumes a few things that aren’t always true:

1. Examinee is aware of test prep and its potential benefits. Definitely not always true in low socioeconomic status (SES) families, especially ones with no family members who have been to college.

2. Examinee can afford said test prep courses and/or materials. Library and online are “free” options, but we are back to assuming that the examinee has easy access to a library and/or the internet and knows how to find said materials.

There are many, many students who would do well in college if they had some insight on how to do college. The US has a lot of wasted potential due to our public school focus on bringing up the low achievers to the exclusion of developing those with high achiever potential.

Some private schools and most public schools in “good” neighborhoods have programs and cultures that cater to those with high potential, but these schools only address a relatively small portion of the student population with high potential, imho.

3. thinkingtoilet ◴[] No.42117519[source]
It's not really being the "kind of person who’s going to put extra effort" and more the "kind of person who is privileged enough to have parents that care about their education, know that outside resources exist, and have the time and money to utilize those resources".
4. screcth ◴[] No.42117585[source]
It biases results towards people that "studied how to do the test" rather than studying the material that is evaluated.