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254 points Michelangelo11 | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.434s | source
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naming_the_user ◴[] No.42056718[source]
What comes across from the article to me is the class barrier more than the gender one - basically it's a posh person finding out what the "real world" looks like.

Shop talk and banter are fairly universal. Any difference is going to be a target. Thin bloke who doesn't look strong enough? Ginger hair? Tall guy, short guy? Weird tattoo, etc. Definitely the one black guy or the one white guy is going to get shit. But is it malicious? Almost certainly not.

The other thing, which in my experience is relatively common worldwide, is that working class communities are more accepting of male-female dynamics. In academia and in highbrow society the tendency is to basically sanitise every social interaction. When you're in an environment where that isn't happening then you can't suddenly ignore it any more.

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dowager_dan99 ◴[] No.42064775[source]
I'm now a soft-hands, academic-type but worked in a metal fabrication shop all through my schooling. Your read is very accurate. I still get her perspective though, because even as a male, white, straight, married guy in a shop full of the same I found it exhausting.
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DiggyJohnson ◴[] No.42065489[source]
What did you find exhausting, specifically? Just trying to understand your comment.
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jvanderbot ◴[] No.42065868[source]
Not GP, but I've made similar transitions:

> Shop talk and banter are fairly universal. Any difference is going to be a target.

Can be exhausting. You have to either join in, be a target, or both.

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xeromal ◴[] No.42067634[source]
I've found that the shop talk communities end up with stronger bonds and generally more real friendships vs office friendships which are very weak.

It makes me think it's a somewhat innate way to foster relationships. It definitely seems to break down walls. I've come to learn that the more a group roasts you the more they like you.

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jvanderbot ◴[] No.42067746[source]
I kind of agree...

My strongest lifelong work friends definitely came from grad school where none of that happened. Or from research work where it didn't either. But there it was pressure and performance and cooperation that helped. It breeds trust.

In blue collar work, esp team oriented which it often is, I'm not sure it's the shop talk or the team/trust environment. Either way i felt the same bond to people making pizza 5 busy nights in a row as I did late night coding sprints while pair programming, or contorting under the steel hull of a target boat to reach a bad CPU while my colleague watched the terminal while seasick and we are both drinking diesel funes.

It's about shared trust I think. The level of casualness of shop talk is just an indicator and kind of a stress test of bonds.

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1. xeromal ◴[] No.42067802[source]
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It's something about the level of pressure but a lot of us software guys have pressure but don't get the same relationships blue collar workers get. I've done both industries (industrial construction and programming), and I definitely found it much easier to make lasting friendships in the construction one even though I experienced similar pressures

It's something to do with the casualness or gruffness of it that makes it better. Office environments are so sterile. Maybe it's the lack of HR. lol

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2. jvanderbot ◴[] No.42068988[source]
Also it's easier to talk, and you're constantly moving around. Focus is paramount in SWeng, which is the same as "leave me alone".