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Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

(danluu.com)
371 points greggyb | 26 comments | 28 Oct 24 21:48 UTC | HN request time: 0.21s | source | bottom
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not_a_bot_4sho ◴[29 Oct 24 01:19 UTC] No.41978402[source]▶
Funny story. I used to see Steve almost every weekday for a couple of years.

I can't speak to his business skills, but I can attest that he never once offered a tip for his daily black iced tea. We'd even have it ready for him before he showed up so he never had to wait! He would pay with cash, and I'd hand him his change and drink, and that was that.

It's funny to me now: one of the richest men in the world and he never once offered a tip.

Frugality aside, he was always very polite and warm so I can't be mad. Makes for a good ice breaker story.

Edit: holy moly, this is a sensitive subject. Please remember this was from a time before tipflation. Tipping meant you left your change behind once in a while only if you felt the desire to show appreciation. It wasn't an obligation. Yes, I still do think it's a funny story. Roast me for being entitled lol

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godelski ◴[29 Oct 24 03:11 UTC] No.41978997[source]▶
Everyone, chill

Regardless of how you feel about tipping culture we're not talking about the average person nor are we talking about the average *experience*. The dude is worth north of $100bn, and is making nearly $10k per minute![0]. Someone who cannot spend his wealth. Someone who'd have to spend tens of millions of dollars every single day just to stop his wealth from growing. Someone who makes money faster than he can throw hundred dollar bills handfuls at a time.

We're not talking about anything normal here because no one here *literally* makes thousands of dollars in the time it takes to wipe their ass. You can become poor, he would need an act of god to do so.

We can have a conversation about tipping and how much everyone hates it, but to ignore the fact that we're talking about someone with this kind of money is... ludicrous[1]. Throwing down a hundred bucks means literally nothing to the man. It is not even what a penny is worth to most of you. He's not you and framing the discussion this way is obtuse. Rage on tipping, I don't give a fuck and I'll probably join you. He's not "sticking it to the man" or "standing up for his values" he *is*" the man. He's playing an important role in creating this machine you're raging against. I just don't understand any of you

  [0] 1e11*0.05/365/24/60
        |   |    |   |  |_ minute
        |   |    |   |____ hour
        |   |    |________ day
        |   |_____________ Conservative 5% yearly return
        |_________________ At least 25bn less than he is worth...

  [1] FWIW, I hate tipping too. Fuck the till based tips with the ever increasing percentages. I frequently click 0. But fuck it man, I'm a grad student. Still, if I'm a regular somewhere and they are giving me special service, I'm gonna throw a few dollars into the tip jar. Tipping culture or not they're going out of their way for me and I should show gratitude in some way (you can also do by other means)
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1. ryandv ◴[29 Oct 24 04:34 UTC] No.41979408[source]▶
This is eye-opening. I make a fraction of what Steve does and am still dumb enough to be hitting 20% at the machine every time I go out.

If 0% is good enough for Mr. Ballmer, it's good enough for me.

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2. ethbr1 ◴[29 Oct 24 06:40 UTC] No.41980065[source]▶
There's a difference between being frugal and being an asshole.

If you have enough money that tips are a rounding error for you -- not tipping just makes you an asshole.

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3. 71bw ◴[29 Oct 24 07:55 UTC] No.41980544[source]▶
It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand?

It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS.

0% tip all the way everywhere. No matter if I have $10 or $10k on the bill.

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4. ◴[29 Oct 24 08:45 UTC] No.41980995[source]▶
5. YawningAngel ◴[29 Oct 24 09:32 UTC] No.41981388{3}[source]▶
There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff and if you choose to ignore that fact and stiff them that's on you
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6. meiraleal ◴[29 Oct 24 09:38 UTC] No.41981490{3}[source]▶
> It's none of your business to ever tip anywhere UNLESS you explicitly want to thank somebody for their service. How hard is that to understand?

That's exactly the point? Buying iced tea everyday for some time means that he liked it. Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates

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7. throwaway2037 ◴[29 Oct 24 10:02 UTC] No.41981844{3}[source]▶
This is a pretty heartless reply. I will be downvoted for expressing my view here.

    > It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS.
Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic. Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out, can offset that gap, just a little bit, by tipping.
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8. highwaylights ◴[29 Oct 24 10:03 UTC] No.41981852{4}[source]▶
I do tip, but is this perspective really helping the people that live off their tips?

You don’t feel the need to tip the people stacking shelves at Walmart or the Amazon driver.

In almost any other job we reasonably expect that someone’s compensation is between them and their employer and that the state should be making sure they’re protected from exploitatively low income.

Why are waiting staff a special case? People have worse jobs that come without tips and it doesn’t seem to bother anybody.

Those tips are expected now and irrelevant to service so it’s also just helping employers get away with paying those staff members less, so it’s really just subsidizing restaurants and cafes at this point.

9. ndsipa_pomu ◴[29 Oct 24 10:05 UTC] No.41981870{4}[source]▶
> There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff

I'm not aware of this, but then the U.S. has a different tipping culture to elsewhere. Have you got any examples?

Also, if it's your responsibility to pay the staff, do you also get the right to dictate how they do their job (within reason)?

10. oneeyedpigeon ◴[29 Oct 24 10:05 UTC] No.41981876{4}[source]▶
I don't think you're wrong, but I can't help thinking that the tip money would be better off funnelled towards political change.
11. master-lincoln ◴[29 Oct 24 10:07 UTC] No.41981896{4}[source]▶
I also use that one park garage all the time and my streets are snow plowed and I appreciate that. Still I don't know anyone who tips those workers. Do they provide less service than the person making me a drink?

I personally only tip if service was extraordinary and I appreciated it. Which is once a full moon at best

12. rowanG077 ◴[29 Oct 24 10:11 UTC] No.41981966{4}[source]▶
And keep this twisted system in place. The only way for it to finally collapse is if people stop always tipping. To me that's truly heartless.
13. grecy ◴[29 Oct 24 10:15 UTC] No.41982016{4}[source]▶
> Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic.

And by tipping you are keeping it so they can just afford to keep making ends meet, thus enabling the status quo.

It could be argued you are continuing the problem.

14. vasco ◴[29 Oct 24 10:18 UTC] No.41982043{4}[source]▶
If you didn't employ them you don't have to pay their salary, or even know how to start to evaluate what that would be.
15. 71bw ◴[29 Oct 24 10:19 UTC] No.41982053{4}[source]▶
> There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff

For example?

16. vasco ◴[29 Oct 24 10:19 UTC] No.41982060{4}[source]▶
And you work to keep the system the same way. You work to earn, and then spend your money sponsoring the system when it's optional for you to sponsor it.
17. pkphilip ◴[29 Oct 24 10:21 UTC] No.41982092{4}[source]▶
Interestingly, I have never seen tips being demanded by restaurant staff almost as an entitlement in any other country other than the US - even in far poorer nations.
18. itsoktocry ◴[29 Oct 24 10:39 UTC] No.41982274{4}[source]▶
>Yeah, except that most of these (low income/low skill) service workers don't have the negotiation power to change this power dynamic

This has no bearing in reality. Most of these places can't staff their stores because no one will work for prevailing wages.

>Thus, you, someone with enough means to eat out

Oh yeah, the people grabbing coffee at Starbucks are all rich.

Raise your prices and pay your staff.

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19. itsoktocry ◴[29 Oct 24 10:40 UTC] No.41982278{4}[source]▶
>Not showing appreciation to something he clearly appreciates

He shows appreciation by showing up and buying tea every day.

How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it?

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20. itsoktocry ◴[29 Oct 24 10:44 UTC] No.41982332{4}[source]▶
>There are lots of instances in which it is in fact your responsibility to pay the staff

Name one (let alone "lots").

21. fragmede ◴[29 Oct 24 11:00 UTC] No.41982514{5}[source]▶
Judging by the number of ads in Windows, maybe $1/day.
22. meiraleal ◴[29 Oct 24 14:27 UTC] No.41984185{5}[source]▶
> How much do you tip Apple or Microsoft as appreciation for their software every time you show up to use it?

I don't use their products which for me are all garbage and I tip often free and open source software.

Now the important thing, comparing "tipping" Apple and Microsoft to giving a tip to a minimum wage worker is quite evil.

23. ethbr1 ◴[29 Oct 24 14:48 UTC] No.41984382{5}[source]▶
> Oh yeah, the people grabbing coffee at Starbucks are all rich.

Relatively speaking? Yes.

Someone spending $4+ on one coffee mean they can easily tip.

And if your argument is that they can't afford that?

Then those same customers won't be able to afford the price increase if Starbucks simply raised labor costs and passed it on.

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24. ethbr1 ◴[29 Oct 24 15:31 UTC] No.41984922{3}[source]▶
> It is the workplace's responsibility to pay their staff adequately. NOT YOURS.

I don't get this argument, because at the end of the day you're paying both ways.

Either you're paying higher menu prices (because labor costs have increased) or you're paying tips (because labor costs are artificially low and you're supplementing them).

There is no magical "the business pays its employees more, but everything you buy stays the same price."

Especially not with food service margins.

25. geodel ◴[29 Oct 24 15:50 UTC] No.41985391{5}[source]▶
The funny thing is when people reasonably say raise the price to actual costs, the answers is "Customer may stop coming..". As if the whole point to scam customer with fake low prices.
26. geodel ◴[29 Oct 24 15:52 UTC] No.41985427{6}[source]▶
Thats exactly the point. Raise the price then customer can decide if they can afford it or not. With fake low prices customers may not know what they are getting into.