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18 points rbanffy | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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yarg ◴[] No.41914651[source]
Ranked choice voting seems like the most reasonable choice - the current FPP system lends itself to strategic voting and a two-party system with increasingly polarised parties.

Ranked choice allows for a middle ground to form independently of the parties at the outer fringes - it doesn't necessarily mean the centre wins, but it does exist and have a chance.

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slowmovintarget ◴[] No.41915794[source]
The Pollyanna view of ranked-choice voting presented on TV doesn't really work out in the real world.

Veritasium video on voting systems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7ws2DF-zk

https://electionscience.org/research-hub/the-limits-of-ranke...

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defrost ◴[] No.41922085[source]
In the real world there are many different types of preferential voting (ranked choice variations) systems in use across Australia and the world.

In a century of voting none of the niggling complaints made in your second link (I read rather than watched) has been an issue and such system are better than the shortcomings of FPP such as takes place in much of the US.

Point 5: What RCV Doesn’t Do: Help Third Parties seems exceptionally on the nose.

eg: "RCV’s complex tabulations don’t show support for candidates’ rankings once a candidate is eliminated." .. well, they do if the electrol commission reports them (as is done in Australia).

"Also, according to Duverger’s Law (a political science concept), a voting method needs to have at least one of two features to encourage third parties. It needs to either (1) have a lower vote count threshold for a candidate to be elected or (2) allow voters to honestly support their favorite. RCV does neither of these things."

In the US, for example, Australian preferential voting would allow for votes to Jill Stein to not spoil the vote for the proper majors (Biden | Trump) and report how many voters actually support Stein Vs Biden or Trump.

Those who wish can vote [ 1: Stein 2: Biden ] or [ 1: Stein 2: Trump ] and (if that's how it goes) if Stein loses by having less votes then the preferences go to each ballots 2: candidate.

After all is done then the winner, be it Trump or Biden, is aware of just how much they owe to voters that preferred Stein and over the course of time the support for Stein can grow AND|OR alternative candidates can move to embrace the policy positions of Stein if they're seen to be significantly popular.

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jfengel ◴[] No.41926080[source]
Voting is not the only way that people let their preferences be known. If the President owed a huge debt to Stein supporters, they'd be aware of it. Ranked choice voting could make that "official" in some sense, but it's not a secret now.

All politicians put a lot of effort into trying to figure out what positions will appeal to voters, and assemble a coalition large enough to eke out a majority. It won't be as simple as "adding policy positions from Candidate X and gain their voters". Every policy position change attracts some people and loses others.

People seem to hope that an alternative voting system will turn up some massive groundswell of support for their specific policy, that is somehow being ignored solely because of first-past-the-post voting. That's simply not the case.

Stein's policies just aren't all that popular. Maybe they're more popular than you might infer from the vote total, but that's not what a vote is for. A vote's job is to determine a sole winner. For making finer distinctions, there are many better tools -- focus groups, polling, reading social media -- and they do indeed do that.

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1. 082349872349872 ◴[] No.41932158[source]
When I was young, there was overlap between the D right wing and the R left wing. That overlap is gone, and I believe FPTP (and its corollary, the gerrymander) has much to do with it.

Now I'm watching the train wreck safely, from a proportional representation polity.

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2. defrost ◴[] No.41932636[source]
Have a cone while you wait: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=885265 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCoRoqGz5so
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3. 082349872349872 ◴[] No.41933050[source]
I'm not waiting so much as I am following Dijkstra's dictum that doctors are not expected to suffer themselves from the diseases* they diagnose.

wrt https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=885514 compare a previous swap: https://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/pierce... !

* I hear the DPRK would give their POWs chocolate bars if they wrote politically correct essays; similarly when I was young I used to get "gold stars" for writing essays about how obviously N=2 parties must be better than, not only N=1, but also N>=3.

(thus far we've been able to avoid the major objection in that thread, by keeping a nearly continuous "grand coalition" government: proportional all the way up)

[we're also helped because political boundaries are not arbitrarily redrawn, but tend to be based on centuries-to-millennia-old borders; I don't know what they do in the cities, but it's undoubtedly better than Austin TX: https://www.kvue.com/article/news/politics/new-district-maps... ]

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4. defrost ◴[] No.41933123{3}[source]
That singular penperson A. Lincoln writes a wonderful ancedote and should consider a career in politics.

In the annals of N>=3, one of my favourite truple slogans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Democrats#:~:text=A....

Third and fourth parties that can't spoil are a blessing in electoral systems, they force deals in the direction of real people and increase representation.