←back to thread

114 points lemper | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.406s | source
Show context
youoy ◴[] No.41914202[source]
Thanks for sharing! I like to look at this example inside the debate of if mathematics are invented or discovered.

> That is how Whitehead and Russell did it in 1910. How would we do it today? A relation between S and T is defined as a subset of S × T and is therefore a set.

> A huge amount of other machinery goes away in 2006, because of the unification of relations and sets.

Relations are a very intuitive thing that I think most people would agree that are not the invention of one person. But the language to describe them and manipulate them mathematically is an invention that can have a dramatic effect on the way they are communicated.

replies(1): >>41916463 #
benlivengood ◴[] No.41916463[source]
I'd say mathematics is discovered and definitions are invented. E.g. "ordered pair" is not part of set theory, it's an invented name we give to a convenient definition of a set schema.

Even base-N representations are an invention: S() and zero are all you need, but Roman Numerals were an improvement over base-1 representations and base-N is significantly more convenient to work with.

replies(2): >>41917708 #>>41917735 #
kevin_thibedeau ◴[] No.41917735[source]
Mathematics is entirely founded on human invention.
replies(1): >>41918079 #
benlivengood ◴[] No.41918079[source]
When we wrote simple mathematics on the Pioneer and Voyager probes I think it was under the assumption that anyone or anything else finding them would have co-discovered enough mathematics to recognize it on the plaques. That's the sense in which I use the word "discovered" for much of mathematics. Our definitions will differ from aliens but the foundations will be translatable.
replies(2): >>41918360 #>>41922639 #
1. youoy ◴[] No.41922639[source]
On a side note, and since you mentioned Roman Numerals in your other comment, I would say that the representation of I, II and III being different from IV is related to how the human brain processes quantities up to 4 [0].

So it is a simple example showing that the way humans process language influences the representation/definition of mathematical ideas.

[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-023-01709-3