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250 points rcarmo | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.196s | source
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KingOfCoders ◴[] No.41911577[source]
What a strange idea for someone from Germany. Here you are registered as a citizen and get a letter to your registered address and you take that to the voting station. Vote. Done.
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ndbsbwbw ◴[] No.41911929[source]
Because, yes Germany has always been fair, democratic and non discriminating.
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MandieD ◴[] No.41914474[source]
I wish my home country could be as brutally honest with itself about its past and work as hard to make things right as Germany has been the last several decades.

The disturbing party coming up on the Right feels like Germany has blamed itself for too long. That “self-blame” is a lot of what has enabled modern Germany to be a much better place than it was before the war.

(I’m an American living in greater Nuremberg, and get to see monuments to Germany’s failures on a regular basis)

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kmeisthax ◴[] No.41915537[source]
German honesty regarding its past is a modern phenomenon, if not outright propaganda. During the Cold War they were a lot less honest; the Nazi regime was often used as propaganda against the other side. e.g. West Germany would downplay Germany's capitalist class's role in Hitler's rise to power and emphasize the racial nature of the Holocaust. East Germany[0] would do the opposite, emphasizing capitalism and de-emphasizing antisemitism[1]. These different spins on the same events were intended to downplay their side's role in the Nazi regime, shifting all the blame to the other.

This is especially true in the West. Large swaths of the German capitalist class actively backed Hitler and the Nazi party, and got away with it. How they got away with it is particularly appalling. One of the most common defenses at Nuremburg was "I was just following orders", an excuse that was usually rejected. But there was one very specific kind of order that would reliably keep Nazis (Hugo Boss, IG Farben, etc) out of the noose: shareholder duties. In the name of anticommunism, there was an active campaign in the First World[2] to downplay the war crimes of German capitalists after WWII.

The AfD is not a result of Germany being tired of remembering. They're a result of Germany's denazification being incomplete - and politically influenced by the exact same economic forces[3] that put Hitler in the chancellor's seat in the first place. States create liberal democracies with free markets, businesses figure out how to exploit those markets, they get unfathomably rich before someone can stop them, they coopt or overthrow democracy, and then replace liberalism with tyranny.

Overthrow is possible because society has vulnerabilities that can be exploited through propaganda and outrage porn. You socially engineer the public into abolishing their own liberty to hurt the other that they hate. In America, that vulnerability was African Americans. In Nazi Germany's case, it was deeply rooted antisemitism. In today's Germany, it's immigration[4].

[0] The Stazi wants to know about your dancing skill and computer memory speed

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Uni...

[2] As in, "aligned with American capitalism" world

[3] America's business elite were not that far behind Germany's in terms of planning to overthrow democracy. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Na...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[4] German immigration policy - and, to a larger extent, most EU external immigration policy - is built entirely for rich, self-motivated knowledge workers who can navigate bureaucracy and do all the integration work themselves. As a result, it has lots of poorly integrated immigrant populations with lots of scary right-wingers that the German right can use to scare German liberals into, themselves, becoming scary right-wingers. Fnord fnord fnord.

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1. KingOfCoders ◴[] No.41915873[source]
Minor thing, its "Stasi" for "Staatssicherheit" (or "Ministerium für Staatssicherheit") not Stazi. But I know it should be Stazi - it sounds more like something Colonel Klink would say.

In general as a reply, I'm not sure where you grew up in Germany (or if, because of Stazi). I grew up in West Germany in the 1970 and 1980 and there was not one week where there wasn't a story about German war crimes, genocide etc. in one of the large magazines. It was also a large topic in school. But it seems where you grew up things were different.

"In Nazi Germany's case, it was deeply rooted antisemitism. In today's Germany, it's immigration"

No it's the same. Racism together with the special case of antisemitism. People don't change.

"The AfD is not a result of Germany being tired of remembering. They're a result of Germany's denazification being incomplete"

Interesting view point. I would assume it is wrong (though I do think denazification in the East was incomplete), it doesn't have anything to do with being tired of remembering or incomplete denazification. Its just that people don't change, and they are nationalists, socialists and racists (just like the Nazi party - (National Socialists)) and with the rise of the populist right in the US and all over Europe, they thought they should band together again. The internet removed all gate keepers. Before that all other far-right parties in the West like "Die Republikaner" didn't get lots of traction but faded away fast.