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427 points JumpCrisscross | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.198s | source
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skhunted ◴[] No.41904004[source]
I’ve been teaching in higher education for 30 years and am soon retiring. I teach math. In every math course there is massive amounts of cheating on everything that is graded that is not proctored in a classroom setting. Locking down browsers and whatnot does not prevent cheating.

The only solution is to require face-to-face proctored exams and not allow students to use technology of any kind while taking the test. But any teacher doing this will end up with no students signing up for their class. The only solution I see is the Higher Learning Commission mandating this for all classes.

But even requiring in person proctored exams is not the full solution. Students are not used to doing the necessary work to learn. They are used to doing the necessary work to pass. And that work is increasingly cheating. It’s a clusterfuck. I have calculus students who don’t know how to work with fractions. If we did truly devise a system that prevents cheating we’ll see that a very high percentage of current college students are not ready to be truly college educated.

K-12 needs to be changed as well.

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_fat_santa ◴[] No.41904882[source]
I remember taking a math class in college and the professor had a very unique way of dealing with cheating. He let us use our books, notes, and "any calculator capability" from our TI-84's. His rationale is that students will try to use these tricks anyways so just let them and then update the test to be "immune" from these advantages. Before every test he mentioned that we could use all those tools but always said "but please study, your books, notes and calculators won't save you".

Long term I see education going this route, rather than preventing students from using AI tools, update course curriculum so that AI tools don't give such an advantage.

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skhunted ◴[] No.41905042[source]
I’ve done this but then you end up with students who are not used to “thinking”. They do bad on the test. Now I’m known as a hard teacher. Now people avoid my classes. Administration hounds me for having s low passing rate. I need a job. I now give easy tests.

The real issue as I see it is that no one wants to face the reality that far too many incapable, incurious people are going to college. So I pretend to give real tests and pretend to give real grades and students feel good about themselves and my classes fill.

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itchyouch ◴[] No.41905607[source]
People want to be engaged with the work they believe in. Students or adults.

Fundamentally, kids that are just trying to pass a class don't see the value in learning and it seems that the contributions towards the "pointless" school work are parts teacher attitudes, parts curriculum design, parts real-life applicability to the student's interests, parts framing.

We've been using tests and such for far too long as a proxy for competence, rather than developing the competencies in such a way that engages the kids.

I think we need to look at reframing fundamental parts of how education is structured. I don't think there needs to be drastic changes, just some small things that allow the education and curriculum to become more engaging.

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1. com2kid ◴[] No.41908185[source]
> Fundamentally, kids that are just trying to pass a class don't see the value in learning and it seems that the contributions towards the "pointless" school work are parts teacher attitudes, parts curriculum design, parts real-life applicability to the student's interests, parts framing.

It is 100% societal. It is because society is focused on "get degree, get job, get money". It is because Western societies have gotten so damn competitive that if you don't succeed at any of the above, there is a non-trivial chance you won't even be able to afford a house to live in.

In America, I'll admit that No child left behind made it a lot worse, with tests left and right, which gives students the wrong impression of what learning is about.

Every class should be about critical thinking. Every single class. Multiple choice tests are a societal cancer and should be limited to a tiny fraction of tests given.

The point of school is to learn how to learn. That is it. What facts are taught are almost irrelevant. The point is to learn HOW to learn. Be that researching the history of fabric dyes in Ancient Egypt or making a scale drawing of one's house.

The "WHAT" IS NOT IMPORTANT.

The HOW is important.

How to write an essay, the topic doesn't matter.

How to learn about the culture of a country.

How to learn a new field of mathematics.

How to learn a new type of art.

How to give a presentation.

How to learn a hard science.

Yes the basics of physics and chemistry and such need to be taught. But the things that are learned should be inline with teaching the all important skill of how to learn.