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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

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427 points JumpCrisscross | 10 comments | 20 Oct 24 17:26 UTC | HN request time: 0.482s | source | bottom
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lwhi ◴[21 Oct 24 08:16 UTC] No.41901852[source]▶
It is no longer effective to solely use a written essay to measure how deeply a student comprehends a subject.

AI is here to stay; new methods should be used to assess student performance.

I remember being told at school, that we weren't allowed to use calculators in exams. The line provided by teachers was that we could never rely on having a calculator when we need it most—obviously there's irony associated with having 'calculators' in our pockets 24/7 now.

We need to accept that the world has changed; I only hope that we get to decide how society responds to that change together .. rather than have it forced upon us.

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gklitz ◴[21 Oct 24 10:58 UTC] No.41902805[source]▶
Written assay evaluation is not and has never been an effective evaluation. It was always a cost saving measure because allocating 30min face to face time with each individual student for each class is such a gigantic cost for the institution that they cannot even imagine doing it. Think about that the next time you look at your student debt, it couldn’t even buy you 30min time per class individually with the teacher to evaluate your performance. Instead you had to waste more time on a written assignment so they could offload grading to a minimum wage assistent.
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ninalanyon ◴[21 Oct 24 11:47 UTC] No.41903100[source]▶
When I studied physics at Exeter University they still used the tutorial system and finals. Tutorials were held fortnightly; the tutorial groups were typically three or four students. There was no obligation to turn up to lectures or even tutorials. You just had to pass the end of year exams to be allowed to continue to the final. The class of degree that was awarded depended on the open note final exam and the report of the final year project. That report had to be defended orally. Previous years exam papers were available for study as well but the variety of questions that could be asked was so vast that it was rare that any questions were repeated in the finals.

It seems to me that this is pretty much immune to plagiarism as well as being much better for the student.

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1. dmd ◴[21 Oct 24 12:57 UTC] No.41903679[source]▶
What about those of us who can explain our ideas and thinking clearly and in great detail in writing but would struggle to even prove we've heard of the topic orally?
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2. Filligree ◴[21 Oct 24 13:10 UTC] No.41903787[source]▶
Well, you’d do badly.

Of course the current setup works badly for those who explain it much better by speaking.

3. exe34 ◴[21 Oct 24 13:30 UTC] No.41903964[source]▶
you could ask for reasonable accommodations - e.g. if you have a recognised medical condition, or even just going through a rough time - e.g. ask to be allowed to write down your answer while they wait.
4. j7ake ◴[21 Oct 24 13:30 UTC] No.41903969[source]▶
In real life you need to be able to communicate written, in formal talks, and in informal discussions.

Those of you who severely lack any of the three will be penalized. Just like someone who can discuss a topic orally but could not write it up would be penalized.

5. Jcampuzano2 ◴[21 Oct 24 13:34 UTC] No.41904010[source]▶
I'm not going to sugar coat it and it may sound harsh, but I doubt this is ever truly an issue outside of the minute edge cases.

Yes, there are people who have trouble with public speaking to a debilitating degree, but it would be excessively rare for someone to not at the very least in a one on one with their professor/teacher be able to be so badly affected as to not seem they've even heard of a topic or at least be able to prove they've worked on it to a certain degree.

I would be immediately skeptical of any student who claims they are completely unable to explain their knowledge unless they are allowed to work in complete isolation with nobody to monitor they aren't cheating in some way.

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6. vundercind ◴[21 Oct 24 13:38 UTC] No.41904047[source]▶
These systems exist in no small part to train that ability, which is crucial to making it in the upper reaches of business and politics. The approach is probably also good for teaching the material, but training in speaking and arguing is more than just a side-effect of it—it’s part of the point.

Lots of elite prep schools in the US use a similar system, for similar reasons.

7. jbreckmckye ◴[21 Oct 24 14:37 UTC] No.41904651[source]▶
(not the CP, but went to a university with a tutorial-style system)

I think the hard answer is that to some extent you just have to learn to. I mean, you could sit silently in supervisions if you really insisted, but to participate properly you just needed to build the confidence.

Is it fun? No, but it's a pretty accurate reflection of life after school: nobody in the real world gives you points for "couldn't say the right thing at the right time, but was thinking it"

8. simsla ◴[21 Oct 24 14:47 UTC] No.41904766[source]▶
At my uni, you could prepare a written answer. The professor would read your written answer and ask follow-up questions.
9. BobaFloutist ◴[21 Oct 24 18:10 UTC] No.41906749[source]▶
Even with extensive notes and prep-time in a one-on-one?

Can you communicate it in real-time through writing? Maybe that's an accommodation that could be done?

10. lee-rhapsody ◴[21 Oct 24 18:46 UTC] No.41907114[source]▶
This is the kind of opinion that should be common sense but is highly controversial in the modern educational climate, for whatever reason. Probably the whole, "You can't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree" quote being misapplied constantly.