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410 points jjulius | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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bastawhiz ◴[] No.41889192[source]
Lots of people are asking how good the self driving has to be before we tolerate it. I got a one month free trial of FSD and turned it off after two weeks. Quite simply: it's dangerous.

- It failed with a cryptic system error while driving

- It started making a left turn far too early that would have scraped the left side of the car on a sign. I had to manually intervene.

- In my opinion, the default setting accelerates way too aggressively. I'd call myself a fairly aggressive driver and it is too aggressive for my taste.

- It tried to make way too many right turns on red when it wasn't safe to. It would creep into the road, almost into the path of oncoming vehicles.

- It didn't merge left to make room for vehicles merging onto the highway. The vehicles then tried to cut in. The system should have avoided an unsafe situation like this in the first place.

- It would switch lanes to go faster on the highway, but then missed an exit on at least one occasion because it couldn't make it back into the right lane in time. Stupid.

After the system error, I lost all trust in FSD from Tesla. Until I ride in one and feel safe, I can't have any faith that this is a reasonable system. Hell, even autopilot does dumb shit on a regular basis. I'm grateful to be getting a car from another manufacturer this year.

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TheCleric ◴[] No.41890342[source]
> Lots of people are asking how good the self driving has to be before we tolerate it.

There’s a simple answer to this. As soon as it’s good enough for Tesla to accept liability for accidents. Until then if Tesla doesn’t trust it, why should I?

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bdcravens ◴[] No.41890927[source]
The liability for killing someone can include prison time.
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TheCleric ◴[] No.41891164[source]
Good. If you write software that people rely on with their lives, and it fails, you should be held liable for that criminally.
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mensetmanusman ◴[] No.41894610[source]
Software requires hardware that can bit flip with gamma rays.
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aaronmdjones ◴[] No.41894885[source]
Which is why hardware used to run safety-critical software is made redundant.

Take the Boeing 777 Primary Flight Computer for example. This is a fully digital fly-by-wire aircraft. There are 3 separate racks of equipment housing identical flight computers; 2 in the avionics bay underneath the flight deck, 1 in the aft cargo section. Each flight computer has 3 separate processors, supporting 2 dissimilar instruction set architectures, running the same software built by 3 separate compilers. Each flight computer captures instances of the software not agreeing about an action to be undertaken and wins by majority vote. The processor that makes these decisions is different in each flight computer.

The power systems that provide each flight computer are also fully redundant; each computer gets power from a power supply assembly, which receives 2 power feeds from 3 separate power supplies; no 2 power supply assemblies share the same 2 sources of power. 2 of the 3 power systems (L engine generator, R engine generator, and the hot battery bus) would have to fail and the APU would have to be unavailable in order to knock out 1 of the 3 computers.

This system has never failed in 30 years of service. There's still a primary flight computer disconnect switch on the overhead panel in the cockpit, taking the software out of the loop, to logically connect all of your control inputs to the flight surface actuators. I'm not aware of it ever being used (edit: in a commercial flight).

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1. mensetmanusman ◴[] No.41895814[source]
You can’t guarantee the hardware was properly built.
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2. aaronmdjones ◴[] No.41895873[source]
Unless Intel, Motorola, and AMD all conspire to give you a faulty processor, you will get a working primary flight computer.

Besides, this is what flight testing is for. Aviation certification authorities don't let an aircraft serve passengers unless you can demonstrate that all of its safety-critical systems work properly and that it performs as described.

I find it hard to believe that automotive works much differently in this regard, which is what things like crumple zone crash tests are for.