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Accountability sinks

(aworkinglibrary.com)
493 points l0b0 | 13 comments | | HN request time: 0.452s | source | bottom
1. calvinmorrison ◴[] No.41892080[source]
Organizations exist to remove moral culpability

Judge, Jury and Executioner Firing Squad Limited Liability Organisation

Humans like to sleep at night. An emergent property of our rule of law is that it exists in a way to reduce the moral culpability of any individual. A police man, a jury member, a judge, a inspector, an executioner, a jailer, they all exist in very neat boxes. These boxes allow them to sleep at night. Surely the Judge has few qualms going by the recommended mandatory minimum, after the jury, who is assured the judge will provide a fair sentence, and the executioner doubly so, with double the potential moral hazard, is certain at least two other parties have done their due diligence.

these systems prevent a single actor from acting. More like they allow a series of hand offs, so by the time the jailer is slamming the doors shut, they are bereft of any investment in the morality of the outcome

The firing squad, with seven guns, all line up, with just one loaded. The rest are blanks. Each man can sleep at night, regardless if the murdered man was surely deserving of death

large institutions, organizations and objects are scale are fully inhumane

I would rather have my jailer be my judge and my executioner be each man or woman on the jury. Isolating each of these things allows the individuals to have almost a powerless notion of 'completing our task'. As if all tasks completed would add up to a moral outcome

Should juries be formed to perform the whipping of an individual, the institutionalization in their own homes, the judge forced to starve a prisoner in his cell, i find the outcomes would be different

replies(5): >>41892097 #>>41892175 #>>41892199 #>>41892226 #>>41892245 #
2. sitkack ◴[] No.41892097[source]
Our meat is bought from the butcher, delivered to the chef so it comes not as an animal, but part of a tasty dish.

If we eat meat, we should kill it ourselves.

replies(1): >>41892234 #
3. delichon ◴[] No.41892175[source]
“The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”
replies(1): >>41892586 #
4. throwaway19972 ◴[] No.41892199[source]
> Each man can sleep at night, regardless if the murdered man was surely deserving of death

Surely this line of reasoning requires the presence of omniscient judgement (ie the abrahamic god) to make sense. Otherwise all gunmen would (and should) assume practical responsibility

5. zdragnar ◴[] No.41892226[source]
The right to a trial by jury was specifically meant to prevent personal bias from the judge affecting the outcome of the trial.

Letting juries perform executions and judges be responsible for the imprisonment of the guilty just creates a massive perverse incentive for sadistic individuals.

You wrongly assume that either judge or jury would be more empathetic if they were burdened with the weight of these things. Instead, you'll get the people you least want in charge of these things doing them.

Aside from the method of using blanks at executions, everything else about the system protects the convicted, not the people in the system itself.

replies(1): >>41892593 #
6. chamomeal ◴[] No.41892234[source]
I get a lot of shit for saying this, but I agree completely!

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with eating animals. But I have a particularly carnivorous friend who thinks hunting is for sociopaths, because he “loves animals”.

If I wouldn’t harvest it, I won’t eat it. And I definitely would be too timid to slaughter a freaking cow lol

replies(2): >>41892249 #>>41892856 #
7. TZubiri ◴[] No.41892245[source]
I agree with the description. But make no judgment of its morality or pretend to have a better system, no shred of humility in that.

Of course you can run a political party suggesting that this division of powers thing was a step in the wrong direction, or better yet, take a trip to any of the dozens of countries with superdictators.

8. TZubiri ◴[] No.41892249{3}[source]
The man who issues the sentence must swing the sword
9. calvinmorrison ◴[] No.41892586[source]
certainly draws some impractical inspiration. I wrote that years ago, before I ever read ASOIAF
10. calvinmorrison ◴[] No.41892593[source]
not just the moral piece, but the passive nature. Once I do this, then it goes to the next person. I don't need wait for the taxpayer to come by and demand ransom for my work to send money off to the capital so they can fund wars in far away lands, it just comes right out of my paycheque
11. bentinata ◴[] No.41892856{3}[source]
I think it's a matter of hygiene and speed. Sure I could butcher a chicken, maybe have a shot at a bigger animal like a goat or cow. I've seen it multiple times since I live in a country that regularly do animal sacrifice. But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to do it as clean or as fast as the usual butcher.

It does feel different from market-bought meat though, at least for me.

replies(2): >>41897198 #>>41903214 #
12. sitkack ◴[] No.41897198{4}[source]
If someone is unable to kill an animal, should they eat the animal? It is another matter to ask everyone to raise their own livestock.
13. chamomeal ◴[] No.41903214{4}[source]
Yeah of course it makes sense for people to specialize. My point is more regarding people like my friend, for whom “killing animals” and “eating meat” are completely different things.

If I wouldn’t kill a chicken because you would feel bad, then I shouldn’t be able to eat chicken without feeling bad. If I’m able to do that, it’s because a big food production system has falsely separated those concepts in my head. Kind of similar to the accountability sinks in the linked post