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psychoslave ◴[] No.41889857[source]
>You can ask whether people who have these severe language impairments can perform tasks that require thinking. You can ask them to solve some math problems or to perform a social reasoning test, and all of the instructions, of course, have to be nonverbal because they can’t understand linguistic information anymore. Scientists have a lot of experience working with populations that don’t have language—studying preverbal infants or studying nonhuman animal species. So it’s definitely possible to convey instructions in a way that’s nonverbal. And the key finding from this line of work is that there are people with severe language impairments who nonetheless seem totally fine on all cognitive tasks that we’ve tested them on so far.

They should start with what is their definition of language. To me it's any mean you can use to communicate some information to someone else and they generally get a correct inference of what kind of representations and responses are expected is the definition of a language. Whether it's uttered words, a series of gestures, subtle pheromones or a slap in your face, that's all languages.

For the same reason I find extremely odd that the hypothesis that animals don't have any form of language is even considered as a serious claim in introduction.

Anyone can prove anything and its contrary about language if the term is given whatever meaning is needed for premises to match with the conclusion.

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throwaway19972 ◴[] No.41890114[source]
> For the same reason I find extremely odd that the hypothesis that animals don't have any form of language is even considered as a serious claim in introduction.

I guess I've always just assumed it refers to some feature that's uniquely human—notably, recursive grammars.

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1. psychoslave ◴[] No.41890640[source]
Not all human languages exhibits recursion though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_language

And recursion as the unique trait for human language differentiation is not necessarily completely consensual https://omseeth.github.io/blog/2024/recursive_language/

Also, let's recall that in its broader meaning, the scientific consensus is that humans are animals and they evolved through the same basic mechanism as all other life forms that is evolution. So even assuming that evolution made some unique language hability emerge in humans, it's most likely that they share most language traits with other species and that there is more things to learn from them that what would be possible if it's assumed they can't have a language and thoughts.

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2. throwaway19972 ◴[] No.41892205[source]
Does any other living entity have recursive grammars? It seems uniquely human.

It seems that the second link may indicate otherwise but I'm still pretty skeptical. This requires extraordinary evidence. Furthermore there may be a more practical limit of "stack size" or "context size" that effectively exceptionalizes humans (especially considering the size and proportional energy consumption of our brains).

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3. psychoslave ◴[] No.41894198[source]
Does it matter in the frame of investigating relations between cognitive processes and languages?

Other animals have cognitive processes, and languages, or at least it seems to be something scientifically consensual. Thus the surprise reading the kind of statement given in introduction.

Whether humans have exceptional language habilites or even "just" a biggest board to play on with the same basic facilities seems to be a completely different matter.