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Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

(subvert.fm)
226 points cloudfudge | 5 comments | 18 Oct 24 16:17 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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mmooss ◴[18 Oct 24 17:57 UTC] No.41881857[source]▶
It's a great start. Co-ops and non-profits can also be subverted and taken over. I hope you look ahead and plan very carefully.

For example, according to an (unverified) story someone told me, a vendor to US east coast food cooperatives now controls many of them; they get their person in, pass bylaws empowering them and disempowering the board (the board usually lacking sophistication), and have deeper pockets for any legal struggle than any co-op member does.

Also, I remember in the news that a non-profit or limited-profit company in the IT industry, founded for the public good, is going to be turned into a for-profit. The board actually fired the person behind this plan, but that person came back and fired the board members.

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__MatrixMan__ ◴[18 Oct 24 19:05 UTC] No.41882450[source]▶
The FAQ has:

> Is this a crypto thing?

>> No.

I realize that crypto is a bad word for some people, but I think that the above answer has a corollary:

> Does it have a single point of control that will attract corruption if enough of us start using it?

>> Yes

Certainly plenty of poorly designed crypto things also have that point of control, but a well designed crypto thing at least has a shot at resilience.

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theamk ◴[18 Oct 24 19:43 UTC] No.41882792[source]▶
Smart contracts only affects on-chain stuff, and this deals with real-world things. No smart contract is going to help you if webmasters update website, or if a board decides to add a rule.

See also: NFT delisting.

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Self-Perfection ◴[18 Oct 24 22:38 UTC] No.41884129[source]▶
But it possible to host a website almost on blockchain (see TON Sites as example) and withdraw certain modification permissions once the contract in launched.

It seems to me that it is possible to implement fully decentralized bandcamp-like site.

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josephg ◴[19 Oct 24 05:35 UTC] No.41885853[source]▶
I’ve yet to see any useful product built on top of crypto. Can you name any?

(Not including things that just make early adopters rich or simply provide services to other crypto related projects).

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Self-Perfection ◴[19 Oct 24 12:24 UTC] No.41887413[source]▶
How about auctions for telegram usernames? It helps to distribute limited resource.
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1. theamk ◴[19 Oct 24 20:42 UTC] No.41890639[source]▶
Telegram usernames are fully centralized - you have to trust Telegram FZ LLC to ensure auction results are respected.

Which means there is no extra trust from blockchain, it's just a gimmick.

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2. Self-Perfection ◴[19 Oct 24 21:36 UTC] No.41890958[source]▶
Yes, it is true that Telegram can technically ignore who owns an NFT with a username, just like any platform can strip a user of their username.

However:

1. If someone approaches you and wants to buy your username, you can sell it without the need for trust in the buyer or a third party.

2. Consider this scenario: someone writes anonymously in a public channel and then Telegram removes the channel, and bans its username. If the author has an NFT associated with their username, they have a way to prove to the public that the new platform where they continue to post is indeed managed by the same person and not an impostor.

Therefore, there is additional value in using blockchain in this case.

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3. theamk ◴[19 Oct 24 23:46 UTC] No.41891719[source]▶
Is there?

1. You buy a username. Old owner contacts support and claims their computer was hacked and they didn't want to sell. Will you lose your new username? No matter what the answer is, you will have to trust Telegram LLC to honor that.

2. Or that person can get a website and advertise on channel. Or a Twitter/Mastodon/whatever account. Or if you want obscure tech, they can publish a public key (directly, without blockchain).

You can certainly plug blockchain in many places. Hey, you could hook up blockchain to your light switch and use L2 transactions to turn the light on!

The real question is: given the specific real problem, is blockchain the best solution? So far the answer is usually "no" (unless the question relates to avoiding laws)

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4. Self-Perfection ◴[20 Oct 24 17:44 UTC] No.41897105{3}[source]▶
You seem to be arguing that it was possible to implement auctions without blockchain, and that such an implementation would be even better. I provided my example in response to josephg, who did not include "using blockchain is the best way to build such a product" in the list of constraints in his question. Therefore, I have not optimized my example for that.

So I'd rather stop argument here.

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5. josephg ◴[21 Oct 24 07:06 UTC] No.41901461{4}[source]▶
That’s fair. I see “bidding on a username” as fundamentally the same as using bitcoin to buy a pizza. An auction is a bit more complicated, but it’s still just commerce. Bitcoin as over complicated money.

But I didn’t exclude commerce in my post above. Thanks for replying.