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167 points godelmachine | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.201s | source
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jakubmazanec ◴[] No.41888729[source]
Obligatory John Oliver video on the topic: https://youtu.be/AiOUojVd6xQ?si=anI1_FKkDM4oDI1M
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artursapek ◴[] No.41888738[source]
Nothing about John Oliver is obligatory
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stonethrowaway ◴[] No.41888787[source]
Less than nothing. It has flipped to the other side in the bullshit of it all. Pundit hot takes have ruined quality dialogue. Frankly I’d rather have discussions with people who do their own research and form their own opinions, no matter how faulty those opinions may be (there is always room for improvement precisely because there is room for discussion), than to hear them regurgitate party-speak drivel shilled by actors.

Talking heads are a cancer upon society.

edit: to the folks responding saying something to the effect of “you don’t know what you’re talking about!” - I could have saved you the trouble and written your responses down ahead of time. They’re trite and reflexive. Oliver is a shill, down to the so-called data. He’s an approved mouthpiece on behalf of the state. He discusses and he frames only what is allowed to be said in a context it’s allowed in, and his edgy woke takes are the complete opposite of. They’re edgy because of how milquetoast the Overton window has become.

Put another way, if you’re in unison cheering for someone who is allowed to have their own TV show, it’s time to ask yourself if you’re being played with bread and circuses. You won’t hear the opposition because, well, in older times and other places they’d be disappeared/imprisoned, but today it’s mostly people like this twat (and yourselves) drowning out the contrarian voices.

Job well done lads.

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rolandog ◴[] No.41888933[source]
I disagree.

The phrase "doing one's own research" has been co-opted by people doing conspiracy-windowshopping. It's designed to get lazy people stuck in the muck while sending them on a Shawshank-Redemption-style crawl through the sewers of the Internet... Only those who can cut through the bull — pun slightly intended — make it to the other side.

You have to start trusting people at some point. Researchers and scientists have proven to be trustworthy, if (IFF!) the right incentives system is in place. (Edit: and talking heads, of course; my claim is that John Oliver and his team of researchers and writers is more trustworthy due to the effort that they put into making things as accurate as possible, while funny as well... All while elevating the quality of newscasters by showing attribution to what they are saying and connecting the dots on why it is relevant to the viewers).

But we are living at an awkward stage of civilization: the very rich are backing political leaders who make a religion out of economic systems and don't view them as useful tools to balance development and inequality.

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1. stonethrowaway ◴[] No.41890459[source]
I agree with majority of what you’ve said. I think we are, predominantly, in agreement. Or at the very least we would overlap from time to time. I’ll skip on the John Oliver details because so much of what these programs focus on with research is telling you what to think by framing facts, omitting details and derailing discussions. I’ll focus on the other bits.

Both the nutty conspiracists and the people nodding along and cheering with TV shows fall to the same kind of self inflicted ignorance: their biases get the best of them and they won’t look for counter arguments or entertain alternative viewpoints or possibilities. Now, I don’t care about what biases those are in particular, but it’s worthwhile to ask both sets of people, upon listening to them make their case/statement, a somewhat simplistic and mildly derogatory question: “where did you hear that?” because both sets are looking elsewhere for authority on what to think or believe.

Many a time I’ve had to reel peoples fantastical takes in by plainly stating back to them their sources and walking them through the narrative they’ve constructed in their head and listening to people who - in many cases - are even in a lesser position to obtain accurate enough facts to make a solid case. Not the most welcoming party trick but it does work to help wake people up from a self-inflicted trance.

I’m reminded in all of this by the usefulness of something like an LSAT, where it’s asking you to recite back minute details of what has been said or happened, or what has not been said and therefore is presumptuous, without necessarily forming an opinion along the way.

You raise a good point on having to soften a hardline stance and trust people putting in the work.