←back to thread

Language is not essential for the cognitive processes that underlie thought

(www.scientificamerican.com)
549 points orcul | 1 comments | 17 Oct 24 12:10 UTC | HN request time: 0.205s | source
Show context
fnordpiglet ◴[19 Oct 24 03:16 UTC] No.41885384[source]▶
For those who can’t and don’t think in words this is unsurprising.
replies(6): >>41889526 #>>41889537 #>>41889604 #>>41889753 #>>41889769 #>>41890199 #
Razengan ◴[19 Oct 24 18:49 UTC] No.41889753[source]▶
Can you count without using a "language"?

Try it now: Tap your hand on the desk randomly. Can you recall how many times you did it without "saying" a sequence in your head like "1, 2, 3" or "A, B, C" etc?

If yes, how far can you count? With a language it's effectively infinite. You could theoretically go up to "1 million 5 hundred 43 thousand, 2 hundred and 10" and effortlessly know what comes next.

replies(10): >>41889806 #>>41889829 #>>41889888 #>>41889923 #>>41890312 #>>41890509 #>>41890908 #>>41891243 #>>41892853 #>>41896057 #
kachnuv_ocasek ◴[19 Oct 24 18:55 UTC] No.41889806[source]▶
Interestingly, I feel like I can "feel" small numbers (up to 4 or 5) easier than than thinking about them as objects in a language.
replies(2): >>41889907 #>>41889976 #
082349872349872 ◴[19 Oct 24 19:10 UTC] No.41889907[source]▶
By feel, I can without language or counting, play mostly

  X . . X . . X . . . X . X . . .
and every so often switch out for variations, eg:

  X . . X . . X . X . . . X . . .
or

  X . . . X . . . . . X . X . . .
but I'm no good for playing polyrhythms, which many other people can do, and I believe they must also do so more by feel than by counting.
replies(1): >>41890131 #
1. wizzwizz4 ◴[19 Oct 24 19:36 UTC] No.41890131[source]▶
Practice a few polyrhythms, get used to things like:

  X . X X X . X . X X X .
  A . . A . . A . . A . .
  B . B . B . B . B . B .
and:

  X . . X . X X X . X X . X . X X . . X . X X . . X X . X X . X . . X . X X . . X X . X . . X . . X X X X . . X X X X . . X . . X . X X . . X X . X . . X . X X . X X . . X X . X . . X X . X . X X . X X X . X . .
  A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . . A . . . .
  B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . .
  C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . . C . .
Learn to do them with one limb (or finger) per line, and also with all the lines on the same limb (or finger). And then suddenly, they'll start to feel intuitive, and you'll be able to do them by feel. (It's a bit like scales.)