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358 points impish9208 | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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GordonS[dead post] ◴[] No.41879865[source]
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mmooss ◴[] No.41881768[source]
> Protests and petitions are completely ineffective

They have been effective for millenia, even before democracy. The only thing ineffective now is people saying so. With all the evidence in the world that protest works, people bizarrely disarm themselves.

The targets of the protests take great pains to convince you of it; that should tell you something. They'll bluff until they lose.

replies(2): >>41881849 #>>41881994 #
GordonS ◴[] No.41881849[source]
Millions protested the Vietnam war. Many millions more protested the Iraq war. Millions upon millions have protested against Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people for an entire year. Now those same people also protest against Israel's invasion of Lebanon.

It has been ineffective. We've seen peaceful protestors smeared, and beaten and harassed by the police. We've seen counter terror laws abused to smear and arrest leaders. We've seen clampdowns on what protests are allowed to go ahead, and at least on the UK they are pushing and pushing for "tougher" laws to crush protests.

replies(2): >>41882014 #>>41882024 #
giraffe_lady ◴[] No.41882014[source]
We're also entering our third generation of peaceful protest against climate change with no effects whatsoever.

Protest movements are only effective when they present a viable alternative to a more radical movement with a will to violence at their flank. We saw this clearly in the indian independence & american civil rights movements, and the fall of apartheid. Iraq war and climate movement are what you get without the credible threat of violence behind or beside your peaceful protests.

One important lesson of the iraq war protests now that we can see with hindsight: we were right, and we were justified in using much more radical tactics than we actually did. Those horrors lay partially at our coward feet so let's not allow ourselves to be convinced to repeat it with palestine.

replies(1): >>41882104 #
mmooss ◴[] No.41882104{3}[source]
What's incredible is not only the vast disinformation on other issues, but their ability to get into the heads of even the protestors and have them parroting obvious nonsense (if you think or look at the evidence). The right doesn't have to lift a finger, make an argument, face any political struggle, because their opponents all lay down their (peaceful, political) arms and quit on their own!

You are your opponents' dream. They couldn't write a better script for you - quitting and self-defeating, at the same time!

replies(1): >>41882117 #
giraffe_lady ◴[] No.41882117{4}[source]
If you read this as me giving up you might want to skim it again.
replies(1): >>41882150 #
mmooss ◴[] No.41882150{5}[source]
You've given up on peaceful protest and are embracing radicalized, violent protest, which is self-defeating. Again, your enemies love you - you're doing exactly what they hope.
replies(1): >>41882171 #
1. giraffe_lady ◴[] No.41882171{6}[source]
No I'm pointing out that some peaceful protest movements are missing a key component of successful protest movements. You calling this self defeating doesn't make it so. hth
replies(1): >>41882360 #
2. mmooss ◴[] No.41882360[source]
Peaceful protest does work and has worked; that's quitting on it. Adopting violence is self-defeating. What basis do you have for your theories, other than the passing fashion of despairing and quitting.