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44 points bikenaga | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.203s | source | bottom
1. systemstops ◴[] No.41875713[source]
To have an honest debate about immigration, we need to admit two things: First, that the issue is global and is affecting most developed nations. Second, that the primary concern is demographic change, not the economics of immigration.

This demographic change is the primary reasons for the "populist uprising" of Brexit, Trump and the recent victories of right-wing parties in Europe and, in my opinion, will likely provoke a civil war in at least one Western country in the near future.

Demographics arguably determine the future of nations, and we have been under this bizarre delusion the last few decades that it was no big deal that mass migration was causing demographics of many nations to radically change.

replies(2): >>41875825 #>>41875861 #
2. kibwen ◴[] No.41875825[source]
I can't speak for those other countries, but here in the US wringing our hands about "demographic change" is as old as the country itself.

"Few of their children in the country learn English... The signs in our streets have inscriptions in both languages ... Unless the stream of their importation could be turned they will soon so outnumber us that all the advantages we have will not be able to preserve our language, and even our government will become precarious" ~ Benjamin Franklin on the topic of German immigrants, 1753

As the descendant of German immigrants, I'm not too bothered about demographic change. Transmitting the values of liberty are all that matters, regardless of demographics.

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3. systemstops ◴[] No.41875856[source]
Yes, and the most stable and prosperous time for this nation was during the period when we mostly halted immigration. That was also coincidentally the period when our social cohesion was the highest.

A nation can't just be based on an idea (liberty). There have to be common bonds between people to make it work.

Also, I would add that there is no reason to believe that your values are somehow universal to all of humanity.

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4. foothefoo ◴[] No.41875861[source]
It's not arguable. It's fact.

Only white western countries must accept immigrants, or else racism.

5. roughly ◴[] No.41875865[source]
Another joke: the only thing the passengers on the Niña agreed with the people who arrived on the Pinta about was that the people on the Santa Maria needed to go back to where they came from.
6. foothefoo ◴[] No.41875880{3}[source]
Assuming you're in the US, the problem is that no party takes this viewpoint anymore, even though this was a common sense position shared by both at one time. "As long as they have our values!" they cry. But they refuse to admit that values are downstream of culture, and culture is not shared between different peoples.