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    Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?

    (neon.tech)
    264 points davidgomes | 19 comments | 17 Oct 24 21:23 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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    paulryanrogers ◴[17 Oct 24 23:59 UTC] No.41875055[source]▶
    Upgrades are hard. There was no replication in the before times. The original block-level replication didn't work among different major versions. Slony was a painful workaround based on triggers that amplified writes.

    Newer PostgreSQL versions are better. Yet still not quite as robust or easy as MySQL.

    At a certain scale even MySQL upgrades can be painful. At least when you cannot spare more than a few minutes of downtime.

    replies(7): >>41875126 #>>41876174 #>>41876232 #>>41876375 #>>41877029 #>>41877268 #>>41877959 #
    api ◴[18 Oct 24 00:10 UTC] No.41875126[source]▶
    I've always wondered why Postgres is so insanely popular. I mean it has some nice things like very powerful support for a very comprehensive subset of SQL functionality, but most apps don't need all that.

    It really feels like early 1990s vintage Unix software. It's clunky and arcane and it's hard to feel confident doing anything complex with it.

    replies(9): >>41875168 #>>41875240 #>>41875306 #>>41875587 #>>41876346 #>>41876770 #>>41877119 #>>41877951 #>>41878394 #
    1. justin_oaks ◴[18 Oct 24 00:31 UTC] No.41875240[source]▶
    > It really feels like early 1990s vintage Unix software. It's clunky and arcane and it's hard to feel confident doing anything complex with it.

    How software "feels" is subjective. Can you be more specific?

    replies(3): >>41875286 #>>41875625 #>>41877469 #
    2. threeseed ◴[18 Oct 24 00:39 UTC] No.41875286[source]▶
    The command line experience is old school style i.e. to show tables.

      \c database
  \dt
    Versus:

      use database
  show tables
    replies(4): >>41875328 #>>41875350 #>>41875573 #>>41875689 #
    3. dventimi ◴[18 Oct 24 00:47 UTC] No.41875328[source]▶
    That's psql.
    4. fhdsgbbcaA ◴[18 Oct 24 00:50 UTC] No.41875350[source]▶
    It’s also faster to type.
    replies(1): >>41876111 #
    5. rootusrootus ◴[18 Oct 24 01:31 UTC] No.41875573[source]▶
    I assume this is really what it comes down to. If psql added those verbose-but-descriptive commands a whole bunch of people comfortable with mysql would be a lot happier using postgres.
    6. dalyons ◴[18 Oct 24 01:41 UTC] No.41875625[source]▶
    It requires a ton of somewhat arcane maintenance at scale. Vacuum shenanigans, Index fragmentation requiring manual reindexing, Txid wraparounds. I like Postgres but it’s definitely way more work to maintain a large instance than mysql. MySQL just kinda works
    7. georgyo ◴[18 Oct 24 01:53 UTC] No.41875689[source]▶
    I started with MySQL in 2006 for my personal projects, but what first won me over to psql was those commands.

    Today I use CLIs like usql to interact with MySQL and SQLite so I can continue to use those commands.

    At first glance they may be less obvious, but they are significantly more discoverable. \? Just shows you all of them. In MySQL it always feels like I need to Google it.

    replies(1): >>41876427 #
    8. eYrKEC2 ◴[18 Oct 24 03:30 UTC] No.41876111{3}[source]▶
    Not after you have to google, "What's the equivalent of `show tables` in postgres?", because the psql command names are completely arbitrary.
    replies(5): >>41876166 #>>41877357 #>>41878020 #>>41878561 #>>41884086 #
    9. fhdsgbbcaA ◴[18 Oct 24 03:44 UTC] No.41876166{4}[source]▶
    Which you need to do exactly once.
    replies(1): >>41876478 #
    10. stephenr ◴[18 Oct 24 04:47 UTC] No.41876427{3}[source]▶
    > At first glance they may be less obvious, but they are significantly more discoverable. \? Just shows you all of them. In MySQL it always feels like I need to Google it.

    In MySQL either `?` or `help` or `\?` will show you the help...

    11. kalleboo ◴[18 Oct 24 04:59 UTC] No.41876478{5}[source]▶
    I need to manually admin my database server maybe once every 2 years or so. Definitely not remembering them 2 years later.
    replies(1): >>41889579 #
    12. ◴[18 Oct 24 08:16 UTC] No.41877357{4}[source]▶
    13. arkh ◴[18 Oct 24 08:42 UTC] No.41877469[source]▶
    Having to tinker with pg_hba.conf files on the server so manage how users can connect.
    replies(1): >>41878377 #
    14. Symbiote ◴[18 Oct 24 10:31 UTC] No.41878020{4}[source]▶
    They are clearly abbreviations.

    \c is for connect.

    \dt is for describe tables.

    15. paulryanrogers ◴[18 Oct 24 11:29 UTC] No.41878377[source]▶
    I'd agree that is annoying yet usually just a one off task, unless you really want different IP allowlists per user.
    replies(1): >>41880521 #
    16. mxey ◴[18 Oct 24 11:58 UTC] No.41878561{4}[source]▶
    \? shows the help
    17. Tostino ◴[18 Oct 24 15:49 UTC] No.41880521{3}[source]▶
    In complex environments it is not just a one off task. I dealt with it by automating my infrastructure with ansible, but without some tooling it sucks.
    18. ahoka ◴[18 Oct 24 22:32 UTC] No.41884086{4}[source]▶
    They kinda make sense if you consider that Postgres was not an SQL database in the beginning. Quirky though.
    19. dventimi ◴[19 Oct 24 18:25 UTC] No.41889579{6}[source]▶
    Sounds like a YP