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Grandmaster-level chess without search

(github.com)
166 points lawrenceyan | 5 comments | 17 Oct 24 19:13 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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joelthelion ◴[17 Oct 24 20:42 UTC] No.41873554[source]▶
I wonder if you could creatively combine this model with search algorithms to advance the state of the art in computer chess? I wouldn't be surprised to see such a bot pop up on tcec in a couple years.
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alfalfasprout ◴[17 Oct 24 20:52 UTC] No.41873666[source]▶
The thing is classical chess (unlike eg; go) is essentially "solved" when run on computers capable of extreme depth. Modern chess engines play essentially flawlessly.
replies(5): >>41873728 #>>41873731 #>>41873743 #>>41873853 #>>41873911 #
1. solveit ◴[17 Oct 24 20:59 UTC] No.41873731[source]▶
We really have no way to know this. But I would be very surprised if modern chess engines didn't regularly blunder into losing (from the perspective of a hypothetical 32-piece tablebase) positions, and very very surprised if modern chess engines perfectly converted tablebase-winning positions.
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2. __s ◴[17 Oct 24 21:01 UTC] No.41873753[source]▶
not only blunder into losing positions, but also blunder from winning positions into draws

even in human chess people sometimes mistaken draw frequency to reflect both sides playing optimally, but there are many games where a winning advantage slips away into a draw

3. janalsncm ◴[17 Oct 24 21:37 UTC] No.41874074[source]▶
The fact that TCEC games aren’t all draws suggests that computers aren’t perfect. Stockfish loses to Leela sometimes for example.
replies(1): >>41874621 #
4. grumpopotamus ◴[17 Oct 24 22:51 UTC] No.41874621[source]▶
Tcec games are deliberately played from imbalanced opening positions. The draw rate would be much higher for the top participants if this wasn't forced. However, I agree that engines are not perfect. I have heard this claim many times before a new engine came along that showed just how beatable the state of the art engines still were at the time.
5. KK7NIL ◴[17 Oct 24 23:07 UTC] No.41874713[source]▶
We do know this, there are many positions (primarily sharp middle game one's) where SF/lc0 will significantly change their evaluation as they go deeper. This problem gets better the more time they spend on one position but it's an inevitable consequence of the horizon effect and it's why (except for 8 pieces or less), chess is far from solved.