←back to thread

486 points dbreunig | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
isusmelj ◴[] No.41863460[source]
I think the results show that just in general the compute is not used well. That the CPU took 8.4ms and GPU took 3.2ms shows a very small gap. I'd expect more like 10x - 20x difference here. I'd assume that the onnxruntime might be the issue. I think some hardware vendors just release the compute units without shipping proper support yet. Let's see how fast that will change.

Also, people often mistake the reason for an NPU is "speed". That's not correct. The whole point of the NPU is rather to focus on low power consumption. To focus on speed you'd need to get rid of the memory bottleneck. Then you end up designing your own ASIC with it's own memory. The NPUs we see in most devices are part of the SoC around the CPU to offload AI computations. It would be interesting to run this benchmark in a infinite loop for the three devices (CPU, NPU, GPU) and measure power consumption. I'd expect the NPU to be lowest and also best in terms of "ops/watt"

replies(8): >>41863552 #>>41863639 #>>41864898 #>>41864928 #>>41864933 #>>41866594 #>>41869485 #>>41870575 #
AlexandrB ◴[] No.41863552[source]
> Also, people often mistake the reason for an NPU is "speed". That's not correct. The whole point of the NPU is rather to focus on low power consumption.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the real real reason for an NPU is marketing. "Oh look, NVDA is worth $3.3T - let's make sure we stick some AI stuff in our products too."

replies(8): >>41863644 #>>41863654 #>>41865529 #>>41865968 #>>41866150 #>>41866423 #>>41867045 #>>41870116 #
Spooky23 ◴[] No.41865968[source]
Microsoft needs to throw something in the gap to slow down MacBook attrition.

The M processors changed the game. My teams support 250k users. I went from 50 MacBooks in 2020 to over 10,000 today. I added zero staff - we manage them like iPhones.

replies(3): >>41866126 #>>41866658 #>>41875496 #
cj ◴[] No.41866126[source]
Rightly so.

The M processor really did completely eliminate all sense of “lag” for basic computing (web browsing, restarting your computer, etc). Everything happens nearly instantly, even on the first generation M1 processor. The experience of “waiting for something to load” went away.

Not to mention these machines easily last 5-10 years.

replies(4): >>41866165 #>>41866450 #>>41866737 #>>41866918 #
nxobject ◴[] No.41866165[source]
As a very happy M1 Max user (should've shelled out for 64GB of RAM, though, for local LLMs!), I don't look forward to seeing how the Google Workspace/Notions/etc. of the world somehow reintroduce lag back in.
replies(3): >>41866309 #>>41866670 #>>41866791 #
bugbuddy ◴[] No.41866309[source]
The problem for Intel and AMD is they are stuck with an OS that ships with a lag-inducing Anti-malware suite. I just did a simple git log and it took 2000% longer than usual because the Antivirus was triggered to scan and run a simulation on each machine instruction and byte of data accessed. The commit log window stayed blank waiting to load long enough for me to complete another tiny project. It always ruin my day.
replies(2): >>41866574 #>>41866628 #
alisonatwork ◴[] No.41866628[source]
Pro tip: turn off malware scanning in your git repos[0]. There is also the new Dev Drive feature in Windows 11 that makes it even easier for developers (and IT admins) to set this kind of thing up via policies[1].

In companies where I worked where the IT team rolled out "security" software to the Mac-based developers, their computers were not noticeably faster than Windows PCs at all, especially given the majority of containers are still linux/amd64, reflecting the actual deployment environment. Meanwhile Windows also runs on ARM anyway, so it's not really something useful to generalize about.

[0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-to-add-a-file-...

[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/

replies(2): >>41866770 #>>41866861 #
1. xxs ◴[] No.41866861{3}[source]
the short answer is that you can't without the necessary permissions, and even if you do - the next roll out will wipe out your changes.

So the pro-part of the tip does not apply.

On my own machines anti-virus is one the very first things to be removed. Most of the time I'd turn off all the swap file, yet Windows doesn't overcommit and certain applications are notorious for allocating memory w/o even using it.