Most active commenters
  • guappa(5)
  • worstspotgain(4)
  • mc32(3)
  • MrLeap(3)

←back to thread

Reflections on Palantir

(nabeelqu.substack.com)
479 points freditup | 57 comments | | HN request time: 1.955s | source | bottom
Show context
asdasdsddd ◴[] No.41864951[source]
I worked there in the weird era. A couple things.

1. As per usual, the things that make palantir well known not even close to being the most dubious things.

2. I agree that the rank and file of palantir is no different from typical sv talent.

3. The services -> product transition was cool, I didn't weigh it as much as should've, but I did purchase fomo insurance after they ipo'd

4. The shadow hierarchy was so bad, it's impossible to figure out who you actually needed to talk to.

replies(5): >>41865111 #>>41865768 #>>41866453 #>>41867754 #>>41867811 #
avmich ◴[] No.41865111[source]
It would also be interesting to hear thoughts on the company of somebody like Cory Doctorow.

Edit: aha, found. https://doctorow.medium.com/how-palantir-will-steal-the-nhs-...

"Palantir is one of the most sinister companies on the global stage, a company whose pitch is to sell humans rights abuses as a service. The customers for this turnkey service include America’s most corrupt police departments, who use Palantir’s products to monitor protest movements.

Palantir’s clients also include the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a federal agency who rely on Palantir’s products for their ethnic cleansing..."

replies(6): >>41865424 #>>41865945 #>>41866147 #>>41866216 #>>41867235 #>>41869329 #
1. carom ◴[] No.41865540[source]
It is because corporations benefit from exploitable labor and competition among workers. For this reason they promote a narrative that opposing illegal immigration is racist. The counter narrative would be that preventing it gives power to American workers (of all races) but no one seems to discuss that.
replies(3): >>41866841 #>>41867029 #>>41867771 #
2. IgorPartola ◴[] No.41865593[source]
Basically because everyone here is an immigrant of some sort just maybe not first generation. Also because the vast majority of people who show up at the Mexican border are fleeing horrific violence and when you are fleeing horrific violence it is difficult to always do things by the book. And also it is a reaction to just how poorly these people that otherwise would be classified as refugees get treated. Under Trump in particular family separation became the norm and courts who oversaw immigration cases had kids as young as 4 brought before a judge without family or legal representation.
replies(1): >>41865823 #
3. avmich ◴[] No.41865727[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus

The immigration has always existed, laws of it shifted, and AFAIK the current level of illegal immigration is not that high. So it's not really a large economical or humanitarian problem, and looks like it's much bigger political one.

replies(1): >>41867105 #
4. chipotle_coyote ◴[] No.41865849{3}[source]
[citation needed]
5. worstspotgain ◴[] No.41865939{3}[source]
They're fleeing Putin's strategically-created crises in Syria, Venezuela and elsewhere. He gives you the flu, blames the aspirin, and sells you the Ivermectin.
replies(2): >>41865959 #>>41868165 #
6. mc32 ◴[] No.41865959{4}[source]
Maduro shat the bed himself with perhaps the aid of his indoctrinated chavistas. They used to get help from Cuba. In any case, it’s their problem. Even Columbia, their neighbors and co-Bolivarians don’t like them going into their country illegally. They also want them out.

Man up and do what we did. Armed resistance and overthrow the repressive government and create a new beautiful shining beacon in the southern cone.

An implication of your statement is that Putin does this to undermine the US thus bolstering the position that these people weaken rather than strengthen us.

replies(1): >>41865962 #
7. worstspotgain ◴[] No.41865962{5}[source]
Maduro is a 100% Russian product and service.
replies(1): >>41865988 #
8. mc32 ◴[] No.41865988{6}[source]
Then kick him out of office. Do a Panama and turn it around.
replies(1): >>41870402 #
9. MrLeap ◴[] No.41866125{3}[source]
A week ago Alejandro Arcos was decapitated right after he took office as mayor of the city of Chilpancingo, a city of around 280,000 people.

Some approximate stats:

Mexico has 45,000~ murders a year. The United States has about 25k a year.

The population of Mexico is 130m. The population of the US is 350m.

One can't derive the distribution of motivations that bring immigrants from these statistics. That said, I'd call that an alarming about of horrific violence. It's safe to say it's not evenly distributed over the whole of Mexico. It's easy to imagine being motivated to move by those statistics/events.

Like everything, it's probably a spectrum of motivations. More opportunities, better schools, fewer decapitations?

replies(3): >>41866151 #>>41866590 #>>41870983 #
10. mc32 ◴[] No.41866151{4}[source]
People get murdered in the US too. We had a presidential candidate who had two attempts on his life this election cycle. Dems glaze over that.

Should kids in Chicago get a pass to move to buenos Aires because Chicago is so violent? That’s our problem to solve. Mexicans have their own problems to solve. Of course electing a socialist probably won’t help. They need their own Milei.

Early in our history we had a violent Wild West. We fixed it ourselves. They can fix their own things too. They’re not incapable.

replies(1): >>41866385 #
11. Octoth0rpe ◴[] No.41866208[source]
> It’s the progressives who took over the vanguard of the Dem party that espouse the position of open borders

There are no federally elected democrats who espouse the position of open borders. None. Zero. Every single member of the democratic party in office today in federal office supports some degree of border control, and frankly the degree that they want is not worlds apart from what most republicans want.

The GOP has successfully planted the idea that they are for a wall that lets no one through and the dems will let everyone in, but it's much more like two sides bickering over whether the wall should be 10m or 15m tall, whether or not there should be razors at the top, and exactly how many palantir/anduril terminators should be purchased for intercepting people, 1000 or 1200.

replies(2): >>41866516 #>>41867130 #
12. MrLeap ◴[] No.41866385{5}[source]
> People get murdered in the US too. We had a presidential candidate who had two attempts on his life this election cycle. Dems glaze over that

I included stats in my post acknowledging the existence of murder in the United States. To your point, if Trump decided to flee to Mexico to escape the violence, I don't believe dems would gloss over that.

> Should kids in Chicago get a pass to move to buenos Aires because Chicago is so violent?

I would applaud Buenos Aires if they made a compassionate allowance for hypothetical people fleeing Chicago violence.

> Early in our history we had a violent Wild West. We fixed it ourselves. They can fix their own things too. They’re not incapable.

Everyone is doing the best they can for those within their radius of compassion. It is the way it is.

13. knowaveragejoe ◴[] No.41866495[source]
"Cracking down" isn't what's needed, it's reform of the immigration system in the first place.
14. knowaveragejoe ◴[] No.41866516{3}[source]
The distinction you're drawing is called being intellectually honest about the subject. For people predisposed to the fox news cinematic universe, this is not something they will want to substantively engage with.
15. worstspotgain ◴[] No.41866590{4}[source]
Everything you wrote is correct. However, Mexico is actually an immigration success story. The net migration flow is around zero [1].

The big picture comes down to supply and demand. Today's supply is from specific countries: Venezuela, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Brazil, a few others. Each country has a different rationale, but generally it boils down to violence, poverty, and Putin. Not necessarily in that order, and often it's all three.

"Demand" is due to the congestion backlog in the US immigration courts. A prospective refugee might not see a judge for a year or two. During this period they have to be paroled in and granted work authorization.

Most applicants today aren't genuine refugees. This was not the case in prior decades because there was no backlog. Awareness of this loophole makes the US a much more practical and appealing destination than it used to be.

The backlog, in turn, stems from the congressional paralysis on immigration. For 20 years the nativists blocked bill after bill, despite large bipartisan support for reform. They did so because every compromise also included a guest-worker program and other immigration benefits.

More recently, there was a deal on the table with no GWP and no immigration benefits. In previous years, it would have been a nativist's dream. It was blocked by the Trump campaign in order to "run on the issue." [2]

A large fraction of the 2024 immigration numbers is due to Trump, maybe as much as 50% or 80%.

For the bigger picture, consider the fact that the exodus in Venezuela and Syria was started by Putin. He gives you the flu (waves of fleeing migrants,) blames the aspirin (the "globalist" Western governments who are forced to handle them,) then sells you the Ivermectin (Trump, Orban, Le Pen, AfD, etc.)

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/07/09/before-co...

[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-republicans...

replies(1): >>41870529 #
16. mu53 ◴[] No.41866841[source]
This is an obvious truth around immigration that makes me question the media's motivations.

Asylum applications are often contingent upon finding and keeping employment. ICE immigration prisons sell prison labor sold to state governments and corporations.

The public debate between "Immigration is a human right" and "Immigrants are criminals" is out of touch with the actual considerations motivating the laws and policies by US institutions.

17. pixelatedindex ◴[] No.41867029[source]
I agree on both counts at a high level, but America always had cheap labor. It is what helps us have so much disposable income compared to other countries.
replies(1): >>41872059 #
18. notadoomer236 ◴[] No.41867130{3}[source]
Yet they haven’t they fixed it. It ballooned during the last four years, including federally funded flights bringing in people from South American countries
replies(1): >>41869975 #
19. yesbut ◴[] No.41867170{3}[source]
Our society kind of sucks as it is. Nice to get some new families in the neighborhood .
20. calgoo ◴[] No.41867315{3}[source]
There has always been high immigration in the US, its a country built on immigration!! Like others have said, the current levels are not higher then in the past, its just the political parties that are using it to hide the real problems of ultra rich and corporations abusing the country. In regards to changing society; what is changing? The language? Again, the US is built on immigrants. Are the Italian - Americans in NY going to stop being Italian - Americans all of a sudden? No, they will continue being who they are; maybe they will pick up another language or some new recipes for their cookbooks.
replies(2): >>41868983 #>>41889685 #
21. munksbeer ◴[] No.41867737{3}[source]
> It’s in our face. And it’s changing our society.

I love the irony in this statement.

(Of which I suspect you're completely unaware)

22. munksbeer ◴[] No.41867771[source]
>It is because corporations benefit from exploitable labor and competition among workers. For this reason they promote a narrative that opposing illegal immigration is racist.

This is just such an absurd take. How much reality do you have to suspend to believe that corporations around the globe have all zoned in on a policy of somehow propagating a narrative through public life about immigration so that they can exploit illegal immigration.

I know we're in the anti-capitalism, anti-big-corp zeitgeist, but come on.

replies(1): >>41888136 #
23. staticvoidstar ◴[] No.41867963[source]
I think Darryl Cooper's take is interesting. It's actually original sin from the Holocaust put on all conservatives, not just Germans
replies(1): >>41868630 #
24. guappa ◴[] No.41868155{3}[source]
> And it’s changing our society.

Ah that's the problem. But you're ok with the fact that your grandpa immigrated and changed the society as well?

Why?

replies(1): >>41871466 #
25. guappa ◴[] No.41868165{4}[source]
Ah yes Russia is the only country creating crisis abroad. I couldn't really name any other country that constantly does that as well.
replies(1): >>41875473 #
26. itronitron ◴[] No.41868197{3}[source]
I'd argue that legal immigration is changing the US more than illegal immigration because illegal immigration largely originates from other countries in the Americas and therefore more easily fits in with the USA's existing history and culture.
replies(1): >>41872051 #
27. razakel ◴[] No.41868630[source]
So why do about 60% of people who consider themselves left or far left oppose immigration?

Cooper also claims that the Holocaust happened by mistake, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to him.

replies(1): >>41869372 #
28. lioeters ◴[] No.41868983{4}[source]
> political parties that are using it to hide the real problems of ultra rich and corporations abusing the country

Yup, same in Europe. There's constant fear mongering with racist undertones in the media about illegal immigrants and refugees, it's driving people crazy and violent against each other. All the while they're conveniently distracted from the root of their social ills.

replies(1): >>41870869 #
29. acdha ◴[] No.41869307[source]
Most Americans are not opposed to having immigration laws. The disagreements come from whether those laws are fair and the way “illegal immigration” is used as a bogeymonster by racists. For example, when Trump and Vance were doing the “Haitians are eating cats!!!” thing recently, note how often their supporters would throw the “illegal” term around even for people who are here legally. Their concerns were quite transparently not about immigration per se but the ethnicity of the immigrants.

That controls the general immigration policy debate, too. American employers in key industries like construction depend on immigrants for cheap labor, and the unwillingness to provide a legal path for those workers guarantees that people will keep taking huge risks to come here illegally because the conditions in their home countries are even worse. I would highly recommend reading this article: note both the former cop accurately stating that you can’t arrest your way out of a market imbalance and the lack of reception for the proposals from the construction company owner trying to have a legal path for workers. These people aren’t dangerous, they’re working hard and supporting families, but they’re brown and speak Spanish so we don’t respect them and businesses love to have workers who can’t complain about mistreatment.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/border-crisis-tex...

replies(1): >>41870462 #
30. staticvoidstar ◴[] No.41869372{3}[source]
I imagine for the same reasons people on the right, but it's forbidden to speak out loud

I heard no such claims, but also he hasn't finished his WWII series yet, so a little premature to dismiss him

Edit: When I said conservatives, I meant conservative values

replies(1): >>41873408 #
31. red-iron-pine ◴[] No.41869555[source]
Because American industry runs on illegal labor. They pick the fruit, they work in the slaughterhouses, they build the housing, they work in the kitchen prep lines.

Like go to any construction site, any restaurant -- you're gonna see a bunch of Mexicans, Salvadorians, etc.

As wages haven't gone up, Americans need cheaper and cheaper labor on the low end to be able to, like, eat, and lots of big business knows this. The GOP owned Congress under GW Bush could have locked this issue down, and if they felt so compelled they probably could have swung that during the Obama era if they were willing to push. Instead it's a boogyman they can use to rile up voters while keeping costs low.

replies(1): >>41871195 #
32. bbqfog ◴[] No.41869911[source]
I'm pro open borders. I see no downsides to letting whoever wants to live here, come here. I also think the US culture (think TGI Fridays and Macys) is pretty much the worst and can only improve as we import people with rich cultural histories.
33. talldayo ◴[] No.41869975{4}[source]
Imagine how little Americans must care if they voted Trump out after a single term.

Edit: and you don't believe in global warming? Too rich!

34. throwaway0123_5 ◴[] No.41870256[source]
> Is it all that repressed guilt from invading Indian lands or something?

I don't think you have to look that far back to find fairly convincing arguments that the US is the architect of much of its own immigration "problems." Most illegal immigrants come to the US from Latin American countries that the US spent a lot of time interfering with in very recent history.

Consider Guatemala. Democratically elected president overthrown with CIA support in 1954 so that US fruit companies could keep up their profits by exploiting people. The 1950s weren't that long ago.

Consider El Salvador. During their recent (ended: 1992) civil war the US funded the right-wing government that according to the UN committed 85% of atrocities during the war. The US government then refused to grant asylum and legal protections to refugees, which contributed heavily to MS13 forming in LA. The US then deported many of these gang members back to El Salvador, which did a huge amount of damage to their development after the war.

Wrt Mexico's gangs, most of the demand for their products come from US customers.

Wrt Venezuela, whether the sanctions are right or wrong there's no doubt that they're hurting people there economically.

Given what the US has done to these countries (and others) in living memory, I don't think we have much of a moral right to turn these people away. I've also never had a single negative experience (and many positive ones) with immigrants from these countries (I live in an area with many of them), nor am I convinced that they're even an economic drag on the country.

replies(1): >>41876382 #
35. cloverich ◴[] No.41870402{7}[source]
They did; he manipulated the results[1] to avoid leaving. What now?

[1]: https://www.state.gov/assessing-the-results-of-venezuelas-pr...

36. oceanplexian ◴[] No.41870462[source]
The reason they call asylum seekers illegal is because most asylum seekers are immigrating for improved economic opportunities, not because they are otherwise fleeing persecution from their government. If you want to immigrate somewhere for work you need to get in line for the correct visa. I would expect many legal immigrants here on HN would know this struggle. My parents did when they immigrated to the US.

The problem is that the asylum seekers are committing fraud if they are immigrating for economic reasons, and that fraud is being encouraged by the government and NGOs. JD vance, Elon, and Trump have talked about this several times but the media usually interrupts then or make a straw man argument about racism instead of covering the real issue, which is that these immigrants are being brought in as low wage, temporary laborers to undercut American workers.

replies(2): >>41870629 #>>41872008 #
37. lmeyerov ◴[] No.41870529{5}[source]
Yep. 1-2 years is a judge. The official median is 7 years, which afaict is being quite generous. And agreed, it's gotten a lot harder even for folks most would say we should be fighting to attract.

One of the best things the US can do for its economy IMO is get back to being better at brain drain, and helping naturalize the people ready to work hard in general. They make jobs and help drive the American spirit because they basically have to. That's a tough message for people in struggling industries & towns, but it's hard to make a competitive & growing American economy when the job makers and doers are instead growing the economies of competing countries.

As a job maker, successful scientist, OSS supporter, & thankful refugee granted citizenship, immigration has become simultaneously one of the most American things to me... and one of the most bizarre.

38. acdha ◴[] No.41870629{3}[source]
That’s a lot of unsourced claims which appear to be rehashing people who famously lie for political reasons (e.g. Vance admitting that he fabricated the Haitian cat story), and you’re certainly not building credibility by pretending that they’re somehow being “interrupted” from a serious conversation.

If you have a reliable source for the claim that large numbers of people are lying on asylum applications and that this is being encouraged by the government, you should edit your comment to cite that so there’s something to be objectively discussed.

39. int_19h ◴[] No.41870869{5}[source]
Europe has the "pie" in form of considerable (by standards of most of the rest of the world, including US) welfare benefits. I don't think it's particularly surprising that people who have access to it today don't want to share. The legal vs illegal distinction is really mostly about that - when it's legal, it can be significantly curtailed (and the same people who are against illegal immigration saying "just go through the process" tend to also be in favor of making that process much more difficult).
replies(1): >>41877066 #
40. BlueTemplar ◴[] No.41870983{4}[source]
I agree that's very bad, but shouldn't in this context "horrific violence" be kept for countries under actual war ?

(And specifically the towns where most buildings have been destroyed and most people died or fled.)

replies(1): >>41875421 #
41. insane_dreamer ◴[] No.41871459{3}[source]
OUR society? Who do you mean by we/our? Who do you think built this country? Immigrants, as free men or slaves, from all over the world.
42. insane_dreamer ◴[] No.41871466{4}[source]
standard racist trope among certain Americans; makes me sick
43. nonameiguess ◴[] No.41872008{3}[source]
I don't get it. Haiti has had an ongoing civil war for at least 6 years. Their last president was assassinated and they've suspended elections and haven't replaced him. Most of the capital city is controlled by criminal gangs. Civilians are regularly raped and murdered for no real reason other than intimidation. The UN has authorized and sent an official security assistance mission. What exactly needs to happen in a country before you consider people fleeing it and seeking asylum to be legitimate and not lying?
44. jumping_frog ◴[] No.41872051{4}[source]
Is the reason why America is filled with illegal migrants (millions allowed till now) because the US power structure wants to decouple from China and will need cheap labour to work in onshore factory?
replies(1): >>41872297 #
45. ab5tract ◴[] No.41872059{3}[source]
This is a bizarre take. Corporate towns and company stores and union leader assassinations are all a part of the history of cheap labor in the US.

None of those dynamics contribute to higher incomes for anyone aside from bosses and investors.

But maybe exploitation of cheap labor for personal gains is what you were referring to?

46. red-iron-pine ◴[] No.41872297{5}[source]
why would they take illegal migrants when you could just put the factories in Mexico? which is what all of the "nearshoring" is about, e.g. chip manufactories in Tijuana

low cost, low overhead, no risks due to INS rounding up your people, and no tariffs due to NAFTA.

the reason they want the in the US is to work in services to keep costs down, because overall wages have not gone up and the costs of everything domestically needs to trend down -- and that means cheap labor.

47. razakel ◴[] No.41873408{4}[source]
Plenty of people of all political stripes were, are, and have been complaining about immigration. It was a key factor in Brexit.

Cooper's deliberate misreading of the Wannsee Conference is Nazi apologeticism.

"Well, they didn't really mean to commit genocide, they just whipped up public hatred, confiscated all their assets, and banned them from working! So of course they had to commit mass murder!"

Who are his sources, David fucking Irving?

And let's not get started on the pipelining of extremist views to people who would normally consider themselves moderate or centre-right and are now spouting insanity...

48. MrLeap ◴[] No.41875421{5}[source]
Has our reservoir of kindness diminished so much that we have to ration it?
replies(1): >>41875795 #
49. worstspotgain ◴[] No.41875473{5}[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
replies(1): >>41877046 #
50. BlueTemplar ◴[] No.41875795{6}[source]
We're talking about immigration, and more specifically how a State might approach it.

There are situations where the situation is so manifestly bad, that a prima facie approach to granting refugee status to asylum seekers (aka "opening the floodgates") from a specific location is the kind thing to do.

We've for instance seen countries do this for Syrians in 2015, Rohingya in 2017, Ukrainians in 2022.

But of course this is only viable (among other reasons, politically) for specific groups at specific times, whereas for other groups or at other times the case-by-case treatment of asylum requests has to be done again.

BTW, looking this up I was surprised to learn that the right to asylum initially did NOT cover people fleeing war, and some countries still do not consider it a valid reason to get a refugee status, among them the USA.

51. rangestransform ◴[] No.41876382[source]
We have the right to turn them away granted by our ability to use force, and we absolutely should if they are making our lives worse, period, end of story
52. guappa ◴[] No.41877046{6}[source]
Lol, you really really think that south americans being forced to emigrate to the north is putin's fault? It's entirely USA's fault, bringing up putin when talking about immigration in USA is the whatabautism part here :)
53. guappa ◴[] No.41877066{6}[source]
What welfare benefits? Are you living 50 years ago?
replies(1): >>41880765 #
54. int_19h ◴[] No.41880765{7}[source]
Unemployment insurance, free healthcare, and some form of guaranteed retirement income are nearly universal. To maintain these at the same levels, you need a certain proportion of people who work in relatively high-paid jobs and pay correspondingly high taxes. Which is precisely why immigration systems in most developed countries emphasize skilled immigration.
replies(1): >>41903848 #
55. carom ◴[] No.41888136{3}[source]
I am very pro capitalism, but as a worker under capitalism it is very clear that immigration benefits corporations. Why do you think the impacts of immigration on American workers are not discussed by media? My conclusion is that discussing it does not benefit those who own those media companies. They are shareholders in other businesses, they employ people, and likely sit on the boards of companies that benefit from immigrant labor. It does not need to be a conspiracy, just self interest of those who control the narrative.
56. notadoomer236 ◴[] No.41889685{4}[source]
I regret that comment. I was upset and shouldn’t have posted it.

But what I would say is: countries have distinct cultures, and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to preserve them, which implies controlling the rate of immigration from different cultures. The U.S. would be quite different if we replaced half the population with people from Iran, China, or even England. There is a happy medium.Pros and cons.

57. guappa ◴[] No.41903848{8}[source]
They keep shrinking and shrinking.