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sollewitt ◴[] No.41862689[source]
In TY in 1998 I:

worked at an architect's, an archeologist's, a hospital, an epidemiological research institute where I got to use _my own computer_ all day - decided I needed to work with computers, got a summer job there.

earned the President's Award medal

had one class where we stripped an engine over the term

got my first aid certificate

learned how to develop film

took night classes touch typing (on an electric typewriter)

took part in the Irish language school music competition

took German

was in a play

got an award at the Young Scientist

I really developed as a person. I hadn't ever really stopped to think what my life would be like without that development but I suspect it was very beneficial. It certainly wasn't a "doss" - and it started to grow a self determination muscle - find your own work experience, find projects you want to try etc.

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dotnet00 ◴[] No.41863262[source]
I often mention to people that graduate research helped me mature for this same reason. Prior to grad school, I just followed the strict well-defined path modern schooling tends to have - spend most time studying, very limited investment in hobbies and out-of-school friendships, get good grades, focus only on moving to the next year. My grades were great, but it left me as an underdeveloped anxious mess of a person who was incapable of being independent.

Having a few years where I had to do things mostly on my own while still being somewhat 'sheltered' (because a research advisor doesn't have time to babysit, but also won't exploit you the way an employer can) helped me a lot to become my own person and to stop having panic attacks over trivial decisions. At a younger age, the same effect could've been achieved with one year.

Plus, while everyone used to act like missing a year of ~high school would be a permanent blemish on a career, having gone through all this education, I feel that high school was the least consequential part of it. It could easily be replaced with a year of professional 'exploration' with no loss. Especially nowadays, where undergraduate degrees are very common (high school grades can already be entirely forgotten after obtaining a degree), and undergrad programs spend much of the first year redoing a lot of high school material to bring everyone up to the same level.

As a result, when I have children of my own, I plan to emphasize this sort of exploration a lot more.

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BeetleB ◴[] No.41863993[source]
> but also won't exploit you the way an employer can

Eh, my experience is the opposite. A lot more exploitation in grad school than in industry. It's a lot easier to change jobs than change professors/universities.

I recall multiple cases of formal/semi-formal interventions where other professors or the department had to force an advisor to let the person graduate (they wanted to keep milking them for more papers).

And then when you do graduate, forget a career in research if you can't get recommendation letters from him.

But otherwise, I agree. A ton of benefits if you go to graduate school and don't have an abusive advisor.

(I also took a year off after high school. Never understood why everyone said I was making a big mistake...).

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dotnet00 ◴[] No.41864193{3}[source]
>Eh, my experience is the opposite. A lot more exploitation in grad school than in industry. It's a lot easier to change jobs than change professors/universities.

>I recall multiple cases of formal/semi-formal interventions where other professors or the department had to force an advisor to let the person graduate (they wanted to keep milking them for more papers).

That's kind of what I mean though. In grad school other professors you've worked with might still keep an eye out for you. Under an exploitative employer, the way I was previously, I wouldn't know any better, I had no sense for the value of my time/work and I used to panic about having to send simple emails to people, quitting a job used to sound equivalent to suicide.

For me there's also the factor that as an international student, it's a lot easier for employers to exploit me than a school.

Edit: Although, come to think of it, I do know of other departments at my uni where even other professors can't be relied on to help in such cases. So I guess you're right.

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1. BeetleB ◴[] No.41864368{4}[source]
> Under an exploitative employer, the way I was previously, I wouldn't know any better, I had no sense for the value of my time/work and I used to panic about having to send simple emails to people, quitting a job used to sound equivalent to suicide.

Seems the lessons you learned as a grad student are the lessons I learned as an employee :-)

My first job was exploitative. I eventually gave them the middle finger and left. Everyone told me I was crazy: "All jobs are like this. You have to suck it up"

Eh, no. None of my jobs since then have been that bad. Half of them I actually enjoyed.

This is very relevant: https://xkcd.com/1768/