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Hofstadter on Lisp (1983)

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372 points Eric_WVGG | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.202s | source
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susam ◴[] No.41861244[source]
> Attempting to take the car or cdr of nil causes (or should cause) the Lisp genie to cough out an error message, just as attempting to divide by zero should evoke an error message.

Interestingly, this is no longer the case. Modern Lisps now evaluate (car nil) and (cdr nil) to nil. In the original Lisp defined by John McCarthy, indeed CAR and CDR were undefined for NIL. Quoting from <https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/367177.367199>:

> Here NIL is an atomic symbol used to terminate lists.

> car [x] is defined if and only if x is not atomic.

> cdr [x] is also defined when x is not atomic.

However, both Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp define (car nil) and (cdr nil) to be nil. Quoting from <https://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car...>:

> If x is a cons, car returns the car of that cons. If x is nil, car returns nil.

> If x is a cons, cdr returns the cdr of that cons. If x is nil, cdr returns nil.

Also, quoting from <https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Li...>:

> Function: car cons-cell ... As a special case, if cons-cell is nil, this function returns nil. Therefore, any list is a valid argument. An error is signaled if the argument is not a cons cell or nil.

> Function: cdr cons-cell ... As a special case, if cons-cell is nil, this function returns nil; therefore, any list is a valid argument. An error is signaled if the argument is not a cons cell or nil.

replies(6): >>41861327 #>>41861751 #>>41862379 #>>41862873 #>>41862933 #>>41868929 #
lisper ◴[] No.41862873[source]
> Modern Lisps now evaluate (car nil) and (cdr nil) to nil.

Scheme doesn't. Taking the CAR or CDR of nil is an error.

replies(3): >>41863007 #>>41863233 #>>41868861 #
susam ◴[] No.41863233[source]
Does Scheme even have NIL in the sense that other Lisps like CL or Elisp have? I mean in Common Lisp, we have:

  CL-USER> (symbolp nil)
  T
  CL-USER> (atom nil)
  T
  CL-USER> (listp nil)
  T
Similar results in Emacs Lisp. But in MIT Scheme, we get:

  1 ]=> nil

  ;Unbound variable: nil
Of course, we can use () or (define nil ()) to illustrate your point. For example:

  1 ]=> (car ())

  ;The object (), passed as the first argument to car, is not the correct type.
But when I said NIL earlier, I really meant the symbol NIL that evaluates to NIL and is both a LIST and ATOM. But otherwise, yes, I understand your point and agree with it.
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1. dokyun ◴[] No.41863266[source]
I don't believe so, standardly. Guile scheme added the value `#nil' which is equivalent to NIL and distinct from #f and the empty list, but this was done in order to support Emacs Lisp.