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129 points aguaviva | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.323s | source
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lubujackson ◴[] No.41843700[source]
Not to get all Indiana Jonesy about it, but 12 skeletons? From right around year 0? And they even show a picture of a weathered, ceramic cup?

The article plays it straight, but I'm pretty sure this = Holy Grail confirmed.

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kelnos ◴[] No.41851898[source]
The cup they show isn't dated; it just says, "An ancient ceramic item discovered at the Treasury site". It's not even clear the cup was discovered during this particular expedition, or where it was found. It could be newer or older, and need not be related to the 12 skeletons.

If the 12 apostles existed, it seems unlikely that they'd all be buried in the same place, in what may have been a "prestigious" tomb. Jesus isn't exactly described as a particularly popular figure in his time when it came to the authorities, and I would expect the 12 apostles would have died at different times, in different places, and wouldn't have been buried together.

The time range is pushing it, too: between 400 BCE and 106 CE, though that's just the roughest of estimates based on when the city was founded and when it was annexed by the Romans, not based on any inspection of the remains. It feels more likely that this tomb was built, used, and sealed up well before Jesus and the disciples/apostles supposedly lived.

Even if we assume the religious fairy tales are true, this doesn't pass the smell test: it's vanishingly unlikely that these are the remains of those men, or that any of this is related to the Holy Grail mythology.

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lo_zamoyski ◴[] No.41858974[source]
> If the 12 apostles existed

Doubting the existence of the twelve apostles is about the height of obstinate prejudice and special pleading. No serious historian does.

> it seems unlikely that they'd all be buried in the same place [...] I would expect the 12 apostles would have died at different times, in different places, and wouldn't have been buried together.

It is common knowledge that they weren't buried in the same place. They were on an evangelical mission and traveled to different places[0]. All of them were martyred, except for John.

> Even if we assume the religious fairy tales are true

Sad and unnecessary snark.

[0] https://aleteia.org/2017/07/21/whatever-happened-to-the-twel...

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1. panick21_ ◴[] No.41859900[source]
What nonsense. There are whole transitions of Christianity that don't agree with the '12 apostles'.

And there are plenty of historians that disagree that there is any solid bases for the claim that there were exactly 12 apostles. Even assuming that term had a specific meaning in the first century.

There is plenty of evidence that the very term apostles no is different then historically. Paul himself, literally the oldest source on Christianity we have, disagrees with the classic 12 apostles theory, as Paul claims he is an apostle.

So pretty much every serious historian disagrees that there is a clear cut '12 apostle' that were consistent and named since the time of Jesus. In the oldest document we have of the time period no '12 apostles' are mentioned.

There are so many serious issue with the whole idea of '12 apostles'.

> [0]

That's not a source. The majority of that 'history' is church internal history that has very, very thin bases that actual historians would accept.

The fact is we almost nothing first century sources that talk about this (and even what we have is heavily bias and unreliable). Pretty much all of this history is 2nd century at best (most of it later). And we have plenty of evidence that this is by far a long enough within religions to evolve a mythology.