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217 points belter | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.204s | source
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mmooss ◴[] No.41839623[source]
ETA is 2030. Originally planned for a rocket (SLS) which would have delivered the Clipper in ~3 yrs, but which was decided to be not viable for the Clipper (with some lobbying suspected).

How much science is delayed by the extra 2+ years? Looking at the 'project plan', is the Clipper's arrival (and delivery of data) on the critical path for research? And how much research?

I'm picturing a lot of scientists and research projects waiting an extra 2-3 years, and then all the research, follow-on missions, etc. also delayed. Essentially, the decision might shift everything in this field 2-3 years further away, and then centuries from now human habitation of other planets is 2-3 years later (ok, a bit exaggerated).

But seriously, maybe it's not on the critical path or doesn't impact that much. Is anyone here familiar with the research?

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dotnet00 ◴[] No.41839879[source]
> (with some lobbying suspected)

The lobbying was from the SLS side. Congress was set on forcing Europa Clipper to fly on SLS regardless of technicalities and only backed off because the Europa Clipper team made it clear they'd want an additional $1B to make the spacecraft able to handle the exceedingly rough ride SLS provides. They were perfectly happy handing $2B of taxpayer money to Boeing, but were unwilling to spend another $1B on science.

On top of that, it's worth considering that SLS wouldn't be ready to fly right now anyway. As it stands, they can't even manage to build one rocket per year, the Artemis-2 rocket has already been delayed to next year, so, Clipper would've launched 2-3 years later anyway.

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mmooss ◴[] No.41842150[source]
You don't think SpaceX did any lobbying? They just passively stood aside? Look at this story, about SpaceX, via the Project 2025 think tank's FOIA requests, searching for NASA employees who has written things critical of SpaceX:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41757578

It's really hard to discuss any topic that brushes SpaceX tangentially on HN. I asked about the research, not about the rockets, but if one even mentions SpaceX in anything less than glowing terms they get six (so far) responses re rockets, all defending SpaceX, and not a mention of the research.

NASA and SLS are actually the property of the people posting; their mission is to serve all Americans. SpaceX is a private business, whose mission is to serve only itself and, in the practice of its owner's businesses, has zero regard for everyone else.

In that context it's bizarre that people are fans of the latter. In context of social media, where mass influence is bought, it's perhaps what we'd expect - that's not NASA's business.

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1. panick21_ ◴[] No.41852193[source]
Literally everybody in the whole space industry who isn't directly profiting from SLS knew Falcon Heavy was by far the superior option. It not even a topic worth debating, its literally so fucking obvious. SpaceX maybe lobbied, but it was irrelevant, because anybody with a brain already knew the right answer 5min after Falcon Heavy launched successfully.

The only question was if the SLS lobby was able to keep forcing SLS. That was the only topic worth debating. You can even track this to the specific people in congress who are known to be in certain districts who tried to force this.

Here is some research you can go do, look at the price and availability of Falcon Heavy, then look at the price and availability of SLS. No more research is needed.

Funny how SLS that feeds literally billions of $ into the pockets of Boeing and Lockheed Marin 'serve all Americans' and SpaceX that makes a profit of a few 10s of million $ is 'private'. You see how that perspective is utterly idiotic right?