←back to thread

403 points jaytaph | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.203s | source

Last year I wrote a post about trying to make a change in the world by writing a browser.

Today, we're excited to introduce Gosub, a new open-source browser engine that we are building from the ground up in Rust!

Gosub aims to be a modern, modular, and highly flexible browser engine. While still in the early development and experimentation phase, Gosub is shaping up nicely, and we’re looking to onboard more contributors to help us bring this project to life.

Some of the key highlights:

  * Written in Rust: We're leveraging Rust's safety and performance features to create a robust and efficient engine.
  * Modular Design: The project is organized around modules, allowing for clean separation of concerns and easier collaboration. It also allows us to easily swap components based on needs and allows more freedom for engine implementers in the future.
  * Collaborative and open source: We’re building Gosub with the intention of making it approachable and open to contributions, aiming to create a project that's easier to understand and collaborate on compared to existing browsers.
Instead of writing another shell around Chromium or WebKit, we decided to write a browser engine from scratch. We believe that having a diverse landscape of engines is the only way to defeat a monoculture that is currently threatening current browsers and by extension the internet itself. We cannot and should not let a very small number of large companies dictate the future of the web and its usage.

With Gosub, we're aiming to build something more approachable that can evolve with the latest web technologies, all while being open to contributors from day one.

We’re looking for developers with or without experience in Rust. You just need to be interested in browser technologies. There are plenty of opportunities to work on core modules, document our progress, and help shape the project's direction.

We can already render simple pages, including the hackernews front page. However, to render most sites correctly, it is still a long journey, so come and join us!

Show context
johnwbyrd ◴[] No.41840616[source]
Yes, but I'm concerned about the number of existing browser engines that have fallen by the wayside, as the project founders have become exhausted. The scope of such a project is incredibly easy to underestimate, and it has only ever gotten larger.

Some examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/124kphe/what_do_y...

replies(4): >>41840663 #>>41840787 #>>41840862 #>>41840901 #
hypeatei ◴[] No.41840663[source]
The various web specifications are insanely complex (e.g. navigables) so I can see how people burn out from it. To add onto that, a browser operates in an extremely hostile space security wise; to be a serious competitor, you'll need to be on top of your game in that regard which maybe Rust will help with.
replies(1): >>41840815 #
bee_rider ◴[] No.41840815[source]
Something very silly has happened, where the thing that most non-technical people have which is most exposed to hackers is also incredibly complex and requires high performance for some reason.
replies(3): >>41840902 #>>41841384 #>>41841422 #
josephg ◴[] No.41841384[source]
Yeah. I still hope at some stage we build something much simpler that maintains the same security boundary.

Like an application platform (forget documents) built entirely on wasm, and with capability based security. That would let you launch apps made within the platform just as easily as you currently open a website.

The platform would need some primitives for rendering, UI, accessibility and input handling. But hopefully a lot of those APIs could be much lower level than the web provides today. Move all the high level abstractions into library code that developers link into their wasm bundles. (For example, I’m thinking about most of what css does today.)

That would allow much faster innovation in layout engines and other things the web does today, and a smaller api surface area should lead to better security.

It’s quite possible to build something like this today. It’s just a lot of work.

Maybe when chatgpt is a bit smarter, it might be able to do the lion’s share of the work to make this happen.

replies(1): >>41841457 #
FpUser ◴[] No.41841457[source]
>"Like an application platform (forget documents) built entirely on wasm, and with capability based security. That would let you launch apps made within the platform just as easily as you currently open a website."

In the end you will end up with the platform / OS which will lose to competitors because of performance and lack of features and do not expect it to be secure. Developers will manage to leave some holes and hackers will find their way.

replies(1): >>41843152 #
josephg ◴[] No.41843152[source]
Disagree. The web wouldn't be anywhere near as successful if you needed to trust & "install" websites before you could visit them. How does that work? Why don't you need to install / trust a website to use it? Well, because it has this kind of security model. Websites are sandboxed.

The web's sandboxed security model makes it better for users. And that in turn drives popularity.

I think the same could be true for a good application platform. The trick is using the sandboxing + capability based security model to enable "new" usability features that traditional applications can never deliver.

replies(1): >>41843220 #
bee_rider ◴[] No.41843220[source]
Sandboxing has to be the funniest bit of wordplay anyone has ever made in tech. Sand is, of course, notoriously impossible to contain and never stays in the box. And it is not nearly as clever as an attacker!
replies(2): >>41843491 #>>41844484 #
PaulDavisThe1st ◴[] No.41843491[source]
The term doesn't come from the idea of containing sand.

It comes from things built for children to play in that have an edge with contents inside it. You play "in a sandbox" without having to deal with anything outside of the sandbox.

The sand in a children's sandbox spills over and gets everywhere. The children playing inside it .. they don't have to care. They are playing inside the sandbox, and for now, the world outside it is not relevant.

replies(1): >>41844028 #
1. kibibu ◴[] No.41844028[source]
> You play "in a sandbox" without having to deal with anything outside of the sandbox

I mean, besides "gifts" from the neighbourhood cats. How do they fit into the metaphor?