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mmooss ◴[] No.41839623[source]
ETA is 2030. Originally planned for a rocket (SLS) which would have delivered the Clipper in ~3 yrs, but which was decided to be not viable for the Clipper (with some lobbying suspected).

How much science is delayed by the extra 2+ years? Looking at the 'project plan', is the Clipper's arrival (and delivery of data) on the critical path for research? And how much research?

I'm picturing a lot of scientists and research projects waiting an extra 2-3 years, and then all the research, follow-on missions, etc. also delayed. Essentially, the decision might shift everything in this field 2-3 years further away, and then centuries from now human habitation of other planets is 2-3 years later (ok, a bit exaggerated).

But seriously, maybe it's not on the critical path or doesn't impact that much. Is anyone here familiar with the research?

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dotnet00 ◴[] No.41839879[source]
> (with some lobbying suspected)

The lobbying was from the SLS side. Congress was set on forcing Europa Clipper to fly on SLS regardless of technicalities and only backed off because the Europa Clipper team made it clear they'd want an additional $1B to make the spacecraft able to handle the exceedingly rough ride SLS provides. They were perfectly happy handing $2B of taxpayer money to Boeing, but were unwilling to spend another $1B on science.

On top of that, it's worth considering that SLS wouldn't be ready to fly right now anyway. As it stands, they can't even manage to build one rocket per year, the Artemis-2 rocket has already been delayed to next year, so, Clipper would've launched 2-3 years later anyway.

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mmooss ◴[] No.41842150[source]
You don't think SpaceX did any lobbying? They just passively stood aside? Look at this story, about SpaceX, via the Project 2025 think tank's FOIA requests, searching for NASA employees who has written things critical of SpaceX:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41757578

It's really hard to discuss any topic that brushes SpaceX tangentially on HN. I asked about the research, not about the rockets, but if one even mentions SpaceX in anything less than glowing terms they get six (so far) responses re rockets, all defending SpaceX, and not a mention of the research.

NASA and SLS are actually the property of the people posting; their mission is to serve all Americans. SpaceX is a private business, whose mission is to serve only itself and, in the practice of its owner's businesses, has zero regard for everyone else.

In that context it's bizarre that people are fans of the latter. In context of social media, where mass influence is bought, it's perhaps what we'd expect - that's not NASA's business.

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1. dotnet00 ◴[] No.41842353{3}[source]
>It's really hard to discuss any topic that brushes SpaceX tangentially on HN. I asked about the research, not about the rockets, but if one even mentions SpaceX in anything less than glowing terms they get six (so far) responses re rockets, all defending SpaceX, and not a mention of the research.

Everyone's just pointing out the obvious fact that SLS wasn't going to be able to do the mission on time or at cost anyway, so the delays were happening regardless, and Falcon Heavy was the only other option. You phrased your question with the assumption that SLS was going to launch on-time, added in the implication that SpaceX lobbied for the launch and caused research to be delayed by a few years, then decided to complain that everyone else was being biased.

>NASA and SLS are actually the property of the people posting; their mission is to serve all Americans. SpaceX is a private business, whose mission is to serve only itself and, in the practice of its owner's businesses, has zero regard for everyone else.

SLS is the property of Boeing, another private business. Its mission is to transfer vast sums of taxpayer money to Boeing under a contract whose terms remove any expectations of good performance and whose use in Artemis is legally mandated by Congress for no technical reason. The NASA Office of Inspector General has constantly been expressing serious concerns over how bad of a deal SLS is for the American people. We've also had genuine technological progress held back because Congressmen wanted to transfer money to SLS. Its ever inflating costs threaten actually useful science programs every year. I don't see how anyone who actually wants American leadership in space can support it.

SpaceX, as you have noted, is also a private business. With NASA being one of its biggest customers, they are obviously beholden to NASA's desires. Unlike Boeing, who has explicitly expressed their intent to refuse contracts which properly hold the company responsible for under-performing, SpaceX consistently insists on such contracts. Currently, they provide most launch services to NASA and have saved NASA billions over the years. They maintain a mutually beneficial relationship, where NASA gains all sorts of valuable data and capabilities from SpaceX's private development efforts, and SpaceX gains business from NASA.

If you're dismissing this as a social media influence thing, despite all the technical points presented to you, then all that shows is that you were just concern trolling in your original post and have no interest in actually having your question answered.