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185 points hhs | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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nine_zeros ◴[] No.41829855[source]
It is true that trades work has picked up quite a bit. High school kids and their career counselors say the reasons are:

- Well-defined career path.

- High pay as you keep going ahead.

- Union pay and benefits. Incredible stability. Incredible healthcare.

- No outsourcing.

- Lots of paid leave. None of that unlimited PTO scam.

- Lot of camaraderie. None of the corporate nonsense where execs take it all at the expense of people.

- Opportunity to start your own business at a certain point.

- No large student loan to get started.

While not all kids articulate all these points well, but they can tell how their seniors in college are grinding too much for little return - while trades people are working hard, taking vacations, raising families - and buying homes.

The average tradesperson in a HCOL is a millionaire by age 40 simply because they could buy a house earlier in their lives. And they are able to start families and live a very stable life. Kids are picking up on this.

replies(2): >>41830148 #>>41830325 #
clusterhacks ◴[] No.41830325[source]
"The average tradesperson in a HCOL is a millionaire by age 40 ...."

This is a pretty bold claim that I'd like to dig into. Do you have a reference or source for this? What HCOL are you referring to?

I'm quite interested in this whole topic of earnings and wealth in the trades. I am quite skeptical that any non-business-owner trades person is going to have a significant net worth (or earnings) above the general average locally, but maybe you can point me at a specific HCOL where the trades are more heavily unionized or something that would tell a more interesting story.

replies(1): >>41830549 #
nine_zeros ◴[] No.41830549[source]
Here is BLS data: https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes471011.htm

Remember that BLS data leans on the lower side. BLS data for software also leans lower.

The reason they are millionaires by age 40 is because of the value of their houses. They bought early in life.

replies(1): >>41830959 #
clusterhacks ◴[] No.41830959[source]
This is for "First-Line Supervisors of Construction Trades and Extraction Workers." Does this represent the "average tradesperson" at age 40?

If we dig into the BLS numbers for the people doing the work in what HN tends to talk about as trade workers:

  Plumber - median $61,550 per year [1]
  HVAC tech - median $57,300 per year [2]
  Electrician - median $61,590 per year [3]
  Framer(Carpenter) - median $56,350 per year [4]
  Bricklayer(Mason) - median $53,010 per year[5]
  Software engineer - median $130,160 per year [6]
Of course, these are national numbers. We could pick and choose geographical areas to bump up the averages.

It isn't immediately obvious to me what data source could give us a good answer to net worth by age for any of these careers. That is why I asked if you had a reference for it. It's even murkier when looking for data on when someone in the trades buys a house on average.

My intuition (and I definitely don't mind being proved wrong) is that high earning, high-ish net worth trade workers is a story we want very much want to be true. But I just don't think it is, especially if we are talking about the average case.

  [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm
  [2] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/heating-air-conditioning-and-refrigeration-mechanics-and-installers.htm
  [3] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm
  [4] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/carpenters.htm
  [5] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/brickmasons-blockmasons-and-stonemasons.htm
  [6] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm
replies(1): >>41832617 #
1. DannyBee ◴[] No.41832617[source]
FWIW - the median is probably not helpful for some of these trades when framed as they are here because it's not a simple salary gradient like you might find with say, l1-l8 software engineer.

For example - master electrician vs journeyman electrician are very different - journeyman require supervision (ie are not allowed to work without it), master's don't.

(I actually wonder if "first line supervisors ..." above includes master electricians, since they are required to supervise journeyman).

replies(1): >>41832780 #
2. maxerickson ◴[] No.41832780[source]
The pay tabs at the links have 90th percentile pay. For example, for HVAC techs, it is $84,250. For software it is $208,620.