Most active commenters
  • kshri24(8)
  • JumpCrisscross(6)
  • pavlov(5)
  • ben_w(5)
  • (4)
  • janalsncm(4)
  • latexr(4)
  • johnisgood(4)
  • jack_pp(3)
  • kelnos(3)

←back to thread

420 points rvz | 96 comments | | HN request time: 1.852s | source | bottom
Show context
pfraze ◴[] No.41412758[source]
Copying over my latest backend status update; figure folks would find it interesting

Servers are holding up so far! Fortunately we were overprovisioned. If we hit 4mm new signups then things should get interesting. We did have some degradations (user handles entering an invalid state, event-stream crashed a couple times, algo crashed a couple times, image servers hit bad latencies) but we managed to avoid a full outage.

We use an event-sourcing model which is: K/V database for primary storage (actually sqlite), into a golang event stream, then into scylladb for computed views. Various separate services for search, algorithms, and images. Hybrid on-prem & cloud. There are ~20 of the k/v servers, 1 event-stream, 2 scylla clusters (I believe).

The event-stream crash would cause the application to stop making progress on ingesting events, but we still got the writes, so you'd see eg likes failing to increment the counter but then magically taking effect 60 seconds later. Since the scylla cluster and the KV stores stayed online, we avoided a full outage.

replies(9): >>41412984 #>>41413343 #>>41413506 #>>41413569 #>>41415242 #>>41415812 #>>41416225 #>>41417516 #>>41417547 #
pcwalton ◴[] No.41413569[source]
It's frustrating that anything related to X/Twitter is such a predictably-partisan tinderbox because this is really interesting technical information. Thank you for sharing it!
replies(1): >>41414443 #
kstenerud ◴[] No.41414443[source]
It's partisan/political because Musk is partisan/political. And it's not just Musk.

We've been living in a fantasy land of "no political affiliation" in the tech world for decades, and now that the age of the hyper-rich has come once again, they are realizing the benefits of using the power they wield to shape the worlds they live in.

So now in the early stages of this century's great fight, we'll see our beloved tech giants join the political fray in full force, dragging their follower armies along for the ride.

And it works, too. Just look at the comments here.

replies(9): >>41414549 #>>41414566 #>>41414571 #>>41414596 #>>41414987 #>>41415229 #>>41415701 #>>41416661 #>>41417566 #
1. nox101 ◴[] No.41414596[source]
so strange for you to blame this on Musk. Twitter was already super partisan long before he took it over
replies(3): >>41414616 #>>41414672 #>>41415420 #
2. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.41414616[source]
> Twitter was already super partisan long before he took it over

Sure. But Elon changed teams. He used to be bipartisan. But he chose a champion in the aftermath of Covid and--by the looks of it--he's chosen a bad one.

(In an alternate universe where Musk stuck to what he's good at, I could see the entire Artemis programme being delegated to SpaceX and a bipartisan adoption of Tesla as America's EV standard bearer. Instead, there is real political capital in creating a rival to SpaceX. And Tesla is going to have to constantly be on the defence against cheap Chinese imports from the Democrats and establishment Republicans.)

replies(4): >>41414695 #>>41414984 #>>41415488 #>>41415814 #
3. input_sh ◴[] No.41414672[source]
Who else is there to blame for Twitter refusing to designate a representative, leading to a ban?

I'm sure pre-Musk Twitter wouldn't have lost the entire market in the 7th most populous country.

replies(2): >>41414870 #>>41415296 #
4. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.41414695[source]
I think people see Musk differently from how he actually is. Or at least how he sees himself.

He has always said, for many years, that he got into SpaceX to work towards the goal of making humans a multiplanetary species, and he got into electric cars to work towards the goal of having a sustainable energy society.

I think he legitimately believes that “the woke mind virus” is an existential threat to our society, and if that threat isn’t addressed then the other goals don’t matter because society will collapse before they can be realized.

From a near term business perspective his political actions are dumb, but from a personal motivation perspective they make total sense.

Or in other words, Musk is primarily driven by a savior complex, not greed (which is unfortunate for investors).

replies(6): >>41414719 #>>41414836 #>>41414915 #>>41415329 #>>41415787 #>>41416745 #
5. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.41414719{3}[source]
> he legitimately believes that “the woke mind virus” is an existential threat to our society

Sure. I don't think he's a hypocrite. He has, however, hyper fixated on a topic that's in vogue in tech circles but totally irrelevant elsewhere.

Unlike in technology, where one can credibly fail upwards, doing that in politics comes at the cost of influence. And in this block order we're seeing, tangibly, the consequences of Elon Musk's deteriorating influence.

replies(3): >>41414884 #>>41414973 #>>41415560 #
6. jdietrich ◴[] No.41414836{3}[source]
I remember when the Toyota Prius was a potent symbol of everything that was wrong with smug liberals. Lazy comedians still use the Prius as a punchline. Why doesn't a Tesla Model 3 carry the same sort of political baggage? Why don't right-wing conspiracy theorists consider Musk to be part of the "WHO/WEF globalist elite", despite the fact that he's a tech billionaire who is literally trying to plug people's brains into The Matrix and colonise space?

By taking sides in a partisan culture war, he has made his core mission essentially non-partisan. Maybe he does really believe all of that stuff about "the woke mind virus", or maybe he realised that he can buy a priceless amount of political capital amongst people who would instinctively hate the goals of his project just by uttering the right incantations.

replies(5): >>41414866 #>>41414930 #>>41414992 #>>41415276 #>>41415374 #
7. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.41414866{4}[source]
> Why doesn't a Tesla Model 3 carry the same sort of political baggage?

When was the last time you were in a red state? Driving an EV of any kind is a strong political statement.

> By taking sides in a partisan culture war, he has made his core mission essentially non-partisan

Not how partisan affiliation works--think of someone who flip flops from one side to the other. They aren't seen as above the fray or non-partisan. Just unreliable (albeit, usually, useful).

replies(2): >>41415051 #>>41415052 #
8. extheat ◴[] No.41414870[source]
There is much more story that you’re either uninformed about or willfully ignoring. The correct move was to remove people from harms way for decisions they have no control over, hence their staff exit from the country.
replies(2): >>41415325 #>>41415343 #
9. jack_pp ◴[] No.41414884{4}[source]
What is this topic that's only in vogue in tech circles? Wokeism?
replies(1): >>41414961 #
10. FranzFerdiNaN ◴[] No.41414915{3}[source]
He believes the woke mind virus is a threat because he has a trans kid.
replies(1): >>41415008 #
11. FranzFerdiNaN ◴[] No.41414930{4}[source]
Funny thing is that he is poisoning his own well by making leftwing people , who are much more likely to drive an EV, abhor him and Tesla.

It’s not only happening in the US but has also started to happen in other countries like Australia.

replies(2): >>41415267 #>>41415319 #
12. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.41414961{5}[source]
> What is this topic that's only in vogue in tech circles? Wokeism?

Wokeism as it pertains to social media's discussion of the woke mind virus. Everyone has an opinion on it. But it's not of practical relevance to most people, certainly not most voters. Sort of like modern art.

replies(1): >>41416051 #
13. conradev ◴[] No.41414973{4}[source]
I do agree that he is hyper fixated on specific things like gender

but – I do think that there are elements of the “woke mind virus” that are okay with censorship. I don’t think that censorship has any place in a democracy, and I do think it is a problem we need to address.

The executive branch asked Twitter to ban a NY Post story on the grounds that it was misinformation when it wasn’t. It was “malinformation”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malinformation

They didn’t correct the record, and Ro Khanna emailed Twitter to cut that shit out: https://www.businessinsider.com/khanna-emailed-twitter-free-...

I really don’t like Elon, but I fear the previous Twitter censors more. Media is supposed to keep the government in check and not the other way around.

replies(2): >>41415224 #>>41415275 #
14. crossroadsguy ◴[] No.41414984[source]
> Musk stuck to what he's good at

Right. And that is?

replies(2): >>41415012 #>>41415414 #
15. ZeroGravitas ◴[] No.41414992{4}[source]
Weirdly Hybrids have now become a climate denial fave.

In any thread about EVs there is a typical HN commenter desperate to tell you that they drive a hybrid, not an EV like those silly virtue signalers.

For those who remember the vicious attacks on the Prius it's a wild shift in attitude.

replies(1): >>41415096 #
16. wkat4242 ◴[] No.41415008{4}[source]
Yeah so much for supporting your children in their chosen life path :'(

Imagine having to completely break contact with your own father because he hates who you are so much :'(

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-61880709

replies(2): >>41415584 #>>41416376 #
17. excalibur ◴[] No.41415012{3}[source]
Occasional well-thought-out, ambitious, and positive talking points combined with a whole lot of keeping his mouth shut seemed to work pretty well for him.
replies(1): >>41415494 #
18. ◴[] No.41415051{5}[source]
19. skrebbel ◴[] No.41415052{5}[source]
> Driving an EV of any kind is a strong political statement.

This surprises me (I believe you though!). I've read lots of articles and fun facts lately about how places like Texas go fastest at installing solar panels, because solar is now the cheapest source of energy and all. I'd blatantly assume that those new solar field owners would be charging their cars with their own electricity, also purely for money reasons and not climate/ideological ones.

20. wordofx ◴[] No.41415096{5}[source]
Weird how pointing out climate change inaccuracies destroyed scientific debate.

In any thread about climate change they are desperate to tell you that you’re a climate denier when you point out inaccurate information.

For those who remember the vicious attacks on science, we called that the dark ages.

replies(2): >>41415271 #>>41415368 #
21. pavlov ◴[] No.41415224{5}[source]
Musk’s Twitter actively censors and promotes content based on the personal whims of the billionaire owner. Is that really better for democracy?

The Twitter/X experiment seems to have primarily succeeded in demonstrating that nobody has good solutions for this problem, and just repeating words like “misinformation” and “free speech” doesn’t get us any closer to a solution.

Props to Bluesky for trying something else, at least.

replies(1): >>41415574 #
22. LightBug1 ◴[] No.41415267{5}[source]
Yup - the hole turned me off so much I've switched my first EV buy to Hyundai ioniq 5 (N if my wife authorises it LOL) ... not saying they're any better but it's a branding thing ... I couldn't stand to be associated with anything to do with that hole.
23. pavlov ◴[] No.41415271{6}[source]
In the late 1990s there were still medical scientists who questioned the causal link between HIV and AIDS. This was at a time when effective drugs were already approved and saving lives.

Those scientists believed they were asking reasonable questions and pointing out potential inaccuracies. But imagine you were an HIV positive patient in 1995 and you latched on to this scientific debate to conclude that probably you should just eat a lot of vitamins and things will work out fine, since the scientists can’t seemingly even agree on whether you’ll get AIDS…

This is not a theoretical example. AIDS denialism cost hundreds of thousands of lives during roughly 1995-2005. There was a Nobel prize winner (Kary Mullis) who supported the movement with his authority despite never having done any HIV research. The government of South Africa was also involved for their own political reasons.

It was a lot like today’s climate change denialism and needs to be remembered. The major difference is that the personal consequences of HIV denialism were felt within a few years on an individual level, so the matter was resolved within decades. With climate change, it’s going to take a century and today’s denialists won’t be around to feel the effects.

replies(2): >>41415369 #>>41415624 #
24. jasonlotito ◴[] No.41415275{5}[source]
“ I do think that there are elements of the “woke mind virus” that are okay with censorship”

Then let’s not focus on some made up boogeyman and ignore the fact that in 2020, the executive at the time was happily reaching out to Twitter and other platforms asking them to remove posts. The guy Musk is supporting was happily asking Twitter to remove posts.

But let’s be clear, they were asking Twitter to enforce its rules. And you can argue that the government asking like that is illegal, but I’ve yet to see a guilty verdict in court so, until that happens, Twitter enforcing its rules isn’t censorship. No one has been denied their first amendment rights.

More importantly, by Musks own yardstick, Twitter is no longer the bastion of Free Speech it was when he took control. So regardless of what you think, Twitter is worse off now.

25. jorvi ◴[] No.41415276{4}[source]
> By taking sides in a partisan culture war, he has made his core mission essentially non-partisan.

There is a significant amount of people choosing to not purchase a Tesla because they don’t want to be associated with Mr. Musk.

SpaceX is more insulated because there is essentially no alternative. If Yspace existed, I’m sure a significant amount of people would choose to champion that instead.

I think you’re vastly underselling how much Mr Musk his communications and his association with the new hyperbigoted misinformation-hub Xitter has turned people to dislike him, powerful and influential one’s among them.

replies(1): >>41415357 #
26. mikrotikker ◴[] No.41415296[source]
Better to stand strong in the principles of the 1st amendment than bend the knee to a foreign government. Free speech is the milk of the gods, the US constitution is something to be coveted...
replies(4): >>41415389 #>>41415506 #>>41415953 #>>41416208 #
27. amarant ◴[] No.41415319{5}[source]
It's in full swing here in Sweden too. Me and a close colleague bought new cars a couple of months apart. My left-leaning teammates who are usually pretty climate aware only offered congratulations to my colleagues new gasgussler, but had some criticisms for me who bought a Tesla.

I found it weird tho, like fair, they were pissed about Twitter, but surely the planet is the bigger issue?

Musk has pissed off the left to the point where the left is not thinking clearly about him and his companies anymore. Regardless of what you think about Musk, Tesla is actually pretty great.

28. close04 ◴[] No.41415325{3}[source]
Musk and his people officially don’t have any control over political decisions taken in any country, be it Brazil, Germany, or even home in the US. And they shouldn’t but by virtue of a ton of money thrown towards politicians, and general US global influence, many times this happens.

So your explanation should be rewritten as “remove people from the way of legal consequences from breaking local laws they/Musk can’t control (buy) in their favor”.

It sounds like the same thing but it’s the difference between fleeing persecution and fleeing prosecution.

29. kelnos ◴[] No.41415329{3}[source]
> I think he legitimately believes that “the woke mind virus” is an existential threat to our society

The issue is that many people who feel this way (seemingly Musk included) swing to the other extreme and embrace policy positions that only serve to further support and entrench systemic racism.

I'm not always comfortable with the methods and rhetoric of some social justice advocates, but I'm not going to present that as evidence that the movement they support is dangerous and we should strive for social injustice instead.

replies(1): >>41415554 #
30. ben_w ◴[] No.41415343{3}[source]
The threats were themselves due to failing to follow a court order.

I'm not qualified to tell if the judge giving them is a partisan hack or not, just like I can't make that distinction with the judges that Musk appears to shop for in the US with what others describe as SLAPP lawsuits.

But obeying a judge isn't optional in either case.

replies(1): >>41415844 #
31. kelnos ◴[] No.41415357{5}[source]
> There is a significant amount of people choosing to not purchase a Tesla because they don’t want to be associated with Mr. Musk.

Yep, and I know people who have sold their Teslas because they don't want to be associated with Musk any longer.

32. bgarbiak ◴[] No.41415368{6}[source]
"Pointing out inaccurate information" in HN comments is not scientific debate, nor a science.
33. kelnos ◴[] No.41415369{7}[source]
> With climate change, it’s going to take a century and today’s denialists won’t be around to feel the effects.

The thing that is so maddening is that we're already feeling the effects of climate change, but the denialists just claim those effects either aren't really happening, or are caused by something else (without bothering to define "something else").

34. dageshi ◴[] No.41415374{4}[source]
If you want an honest answer to Prius vs Tesla, it's because Prius was seen as a slower and lamer version of existing cars for people who didn't care about cars. While Tesla's could get from 0-60 faster than hypercars of the time.

Tesla's offered an experience in terms of pure acceleration off the line that actually made them cool, even people who might never buy one wouldn't mind experiencing one off the line.

replies(1): >>41415828 #
35. moefh ◴[] No.41415389{3}[source]
It's hard to believe that's what's happening, since Musk has previously agreed to censor posts for a foreign government[1], writing at the time:

    The choice is have Twitter throttled in its entirety
    or limit access to some tweets. Which one do you want?” 
One difference in that case is that Musk had close business ties to that government, so read in that whatever you want.

[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/05/twitter-musk-censors...

replies(1): >>41416402 #
36. pjc50 ◴[] No.41415506{3}[source]
From the Brazilian position, it's better for them not to bend to a foreign non-government organization which has been assisting people trying to overthrow the Brazilian Constitution.

But HN seems to think that Brazilians are NPCs without politics or constitution of their own.

replies(1): >>41416619 #
37. jokethrowaway ◴[] No.41415560{4}[source]
The reason I don't move to the USA is because of woke people, scary numbers of mental health and crime.

The reason I moved country is because woke politics is making life worse. Crime is through the roof, kids can't go out in the cities by themselves because it's too dangerous. They started doing mandatory "gender identity" education in school, teaching crap to my kids.

I'm still in Europe and observing a progressive decline so I'm ready to move to Asia, the Caribbean, South America (Argentina maybe?) or maybe switch to the enemy and go to Russia or China, depending on how the situation evolves.

Dictatorship for dictatorship, I just want a low tax, safe place and governments to bother me as little as possible.

replies(2): >>41416337 #>>41426360 #
38. jokethrowaway ◴[] No.41415574{6}[source]
The opposite was true before Musk.

Some friends have an ancap libertarian and they were targeted before.

Woke content is not censored and you can find it on X, it's just that most left-wing people left for alternatives.

I went to bluesky briefly and I was inundated by transgender explicit content. I didn't open it again.

replies(1): >>41415761 #
39. andy_ppp ◴[] No.41415598{3}[source]
I can’t believe people think that the FBI or the Biden and Trump campaigns asking for disinformation to be taken down during an election and the people at Twitter making a call on that request is somehow a smoking gun showing some kind of conspiracy. It’s ridiculous!
replies(1): >>41415652 #
40. defrost ◴[] No.41415618{6}[source]
That's his description of events, as told to Jordan B. Peterson.

"The child", now 20, responded that Musk was “cold,” “very quick to anger,” “narcissistic,” and described him as an absent father.

and further said

    that her father’s comments had “crossed a line,” and she countered that he “knew what he was doing when he agreed to her treatment” when she was 16
~ https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender...

~ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/26/business/media/elon-musk-...

It's not so cut and dried as you make out, it's a heated issue with strong opinions on either side.

41. FollowingTheDao ◴[] No.41415624{7}[source]
> In the late 1990s there were still medical scientists who questioned the causal link between HIV and AIDS

This is how science works. Being right is not "science". Science is verb. If the questioners were right we would be calling them heroes.

replies(1): >>41415971 #
42. janalsncm ◴[] No.41415720{5}[source]
There’s a difference between what a person is legally allowed to do and what is wise for them to do.
replies(1): >>41415748 #
43. kshri24 ◴[] No.41415748{6}[source]
Oh so it is now "wise" to "keep mouth shut". No wonder the West is so screwed. It has a lot of "wise men". Very few, like Elon, who will put their money where their mouth is. What you consider "wise", in this context at least, is basically to just put your head down, accept the diktats of authority, entertain the crazed loonies in society and it is all sunshine and rainbows!
replies(2): >>41415839 #>>41416090 #
44. pavlov ◴[] No.41415761{7}[source]
Musk censors mentions of his own daughter on X — the same person who he claimed was dead on a recent interview, but who is very much alive and posting on Threads.

That kind of monarch-like behavior didn’t exist on Twitter before Musk. Their protocols for hiding and removing content may have been very flawed, but at least there was a process.

45. janalsncm ◴[] No.41415787{3}[source]
> he legitimately believes that “the woke mind virus” is an existential threat to our society

If “woke” involves an understanding that media is mostly filtered through large corporations and crafts narratives used to serve the interests of the ruling class, I’m not surprised a billionaire owner of a media company would consider that a problem.

Rather than identifying actual problems people are facing, media wastes our time with irrelevant distractions. Don’t worry about the opioid epidemic. Don’t worry about the fact that kids increasingly can’t even read after graduating high school. Don’t worry about corporate consolidation and monopolies. You should be worrying about “wokeism”.

46. torginus ◴[] No.41415814[source]
I really effing hate the idea that competition is created not because people with entrepreneurial spirit think they can do what SpaceX does cheaper and better, but because the guy running the show is politically undesirable and untrustworthy.
replies(1): >>41416141 #
47. the_why_of_y ◴[] No.41415817{5}[source]
https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/07/hello-youve-been-referre...

Firstly, Twitter took that down because it violated their long standing policy against doxxing/posting hacked materials, not for any political reason.

Secondly, Twitter leadership realized very quickly that their policy wasn't really designed for this specific event, and within a day they changed the policy and unblocked the posts that they had blocked.

And now it's 2 years later and uninformed people still bullshit here about election interference and this being a first amendment issue (Twitter is a private company and can block whatever posts it likes).

replies(1): >>41415848 #
48. notahacker ◴[] No.41415828{5}[source]
Yep. And he could have effortlessly achieved tolerability in most right wing circles that reflexively dislike "smug liberals" simply by not saying "smug liberal" stuff whilst encouraging right wingers to talk up what a great capitalist innovator he was, running red state targeted ad campaigns and making a pickup truck that people that normally drive gas-guzzlers would actually want to drive. His aspirations for colonies on Mars were already at least as appealing to much of the right as they ever were to the left.

Buying Twitter and wading into political debates isn't a depoliticization strategy, and if he'd wanted to pick a colour of his politics to optimize his business success (surprisingly unimportant when your product line is as far ahead of competition as SpaceX/Tesla have been) the correct choice would have been beige.

49. janalsncm ◴[] No.41415839{7}[source]
If you don’t have anything intelligent to say, yes, nothing is usually best.

> accept the diktats of authority

Is this not what Musk is doing in China? Does he not believe the Chinese have a right to free speech? If he actually cared, he would speak out about it. The fact that he’s choosing Chinese money over human rights, you might say that hurts the West.

replies(1): >>41416560 #
50. luckylion ◴[] No.41415844{4}[source]
> The threats were themselves due to failing to follow a court order.

To the individual representatives of a company? That's very rare, and not common like you make it sound.

"The company you're representing in this legal process hasn't complied with my orders so I will have you personally arrested".

replies(1): >>41416718 #
51. wkat4242 ◴[] No.41415846{6}[source]
That only works if you think transsexualism is a fad and people are talked into it. I don't agree and these treatments are not provided lightly.
52. kshri24 ◴[] No.41415848{6}[source]
> Firstly, Twitter took that down because it violated their long standing policy against doxxing/posting hacked materials, not for any political reason.

That was a BS reason chosen by Twitter. Twitter Files exposed that already. You are late.

> Secondly, Twitter leadership realized very quickly that their policy wasn't really designed for this specific event, and within a day they changed the policy and unblocked the posts that they had blocked.

Yeah you clearly haven't read the Twitter Files. It shows.

> And now it's 2 years later and uninformed people still bullshit here about election interference and this being a first amendment issue.

Because it clearly was and now even Zuckerberg has come out admitting that it was interference.

> (Twitter is a private company and can block whatever posts it likes)

Sure. But if FBI is involved, it does not become a Twitter issue alone but it becomes Government censorship through a private company. That is election interference and a first amendment violation.

replies(1): >>41416295 #
53. the_why_of_y ◴[] No.41415953{3}[source]
Twitter routinely complies with censorship demands by foreign governments, especially right-wing authoritarian ones.

https://restofworld.org/2023/elon-musk-twitter-government-or...

Since Musk took ownership, the company has received 971 government demands, and fully complied with 808 of them. Before Musk, Twitter's full compliance rate hovered around 50%; since the takeover, it is over 80%.

54. pavlov ◴[] No.41415971{8}[source]
I said as much in my comment, pointing out that these scientists with differing takes were not the bad guys: “These scientists believed they were asking reasonable questions and pointing out potential inaccuracies.”

The bad guys were the people who took this receding debate within the field as evidence of conspiracies and worse, and convinced thousands of people to treat their AIDS condition with quackery instead of effective drugs derived from the HIV-AIDS theory. The organized denialism killed people. That’s not science.

replies(1): >>41419165 #
55. jack_pp ◴[] No.41416051{6}[source]
Considering a ton of podcasts talk about it and they're not in the tech bubble I'd say it's a pretty important topic especially in the US.
replies(3): >>41418721 #>>41418724 #>>41422226 #
56. latexr ◴[] No.41416090{7}[source]
> Oh so it is now "wise" to "keep mouth shut".

That’s been true since the dawn of communication. It’s called picking your battles. You don’t badmouth a judge while he’s considering your sentence or insult a robber while they have you tied up with a gun pointed at a loved one.

> accept the diktats of authority

You mean like Musk does.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/elon-musk-censors-twitter-in...

replies(1): >>41416664 #
57. XorNot ◴[] No.41416141{3}[source]
But that's not the issue: the issue is that Musk alienated almost the entire core demographic who wanted to buy Tesla's, wanted to support electric cars and were more or less completely primed to freely promote the entire brand.

He is a man who owns an electric car company but has been pushing climate change denialism as his political position and supporting politicians who do.

There's competition because Tesla is not the dominant prime mover it's valuation implies it should be, and people have sensed - correctly - a market opening. No one I know recommends "buy a Tesla" anymore for your first electric car - they say buy a Hydundai Ioniq or wait for a Chinese brand to get cheaper.

People are actively embarrassed to drive Teslas, which in turn means there's a growing market for "anything but a Tesla...". And because of that all of the actual faults of a Tesla are paid that much more scrutiny.

replies(6): >>41416516 #>>41416539 #>>41416953 #>>41417701 #>>41417708 #>>41421553 #
58. ◴[] No.41416208{3}[source]
59. the_why_of_y ◴[] No.41416295{7}[source]
> Yeah you clearly haven't read the Twitter Files. It shows.

Oh, the Twitter Files! Oh my, how I haven't read anything related to the Twitter Files!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a597e6Wv_xg

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/04/07/mehdi-hasan-dismantles-t...

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/04/10/after-matt-taibbi-leaves...

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-tru...

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/12/tech/twitter-files-yoel-r...

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/01/13/the-anti-twitter-files-j...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/twitter-fi...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/twitter-files-hucksters-are-co...

https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/20/no-the-fbi-is-not-paying...

https://www.cip.uw.edu/2023/08/23/starbird-house-judiciary-c...

replies(1): >>41416935 #
60. johnisgood ◴[] No.41416337{5}[source]
Some countries in Eastern Europe actively opposes gender stuff (it is banned in education). I do not know why "gender" is being asked in the first place, it should be "sex", and that is biological. Why do we ask for gender on websites, for example? What is the purpose of it, really?
replies(1): >>41424830 #
61. ◴[] No.41416376{5}[source]
62. johnisgood ◴[] No.41416402{4}[source]
Limiting access due to technical reasons is not censorship. That said, I have no clue that this is what is actually happening.
63. jajko ◴[] No.41416516{4}[source]
Just a single man representing single family in Switzerland but you are right - I'll never buy anything from Tesla, couldn't care less if they are best or not (no they are not in 2024, novelty wore off some time ago with tons of competition, at least in Europe).

He showed his true colors, there is no correction possible, people just don't rewrite their core personality. Support for puttin' and overall war in Ukraine, support for dictators, very bad stance on many societal topics, treats his employees like slaves, proper piece of shit as a parent, utterly childish reactions of an immature boy rather than Man - we haven't seen the worst yet.

Brilliance in some aspects means nothing if its dragged down into mud by rest of personality. I know some still worship him for the positives and ignore or even appreciate the rest, I can't and won't.

64. torginus ◴[] No.41416539{4}[source]
Tbh, not sure what percentage of Tesla buyers are ideologically motivated, but having tried a couple electric cars, I still believe the Model 3 is the best EV outside the premium segment, period.

As for Musk, he's a weird one for sure. He made me realize that I don't know the politics of most CEOs (or even know who they are). Which is just as well, I don't want to ponder in the supermarket whether my bodywash is ideologically consistent with my shampoo.

65. kshri24 ◴[] No.41416560{8}[source]
> Is this not what Musk is doing in China? Does he not believe the Chinese have a right to free speech? If he actually cared, he would speak out about it. The fact that he’s choosing Chinese money over human rights, you might say that hurts the West.

China has a unilateral ban on all non-Chinese apps. Not just Twitter/X. They have the Great Firewall for a reason. Now for Musk to accept "diktats of authority", X should have been operating in China in the first place. It is not since 2009 at least. Whereas X was operating in Brazil until few days ago.

> If he actually cared, he would speak out about it. The fact that he’s choosing Chinese money over human rights

When he did he got reprimanded by the Chinese CCP. He did not give a fuck [1].

> you might say that hurts the West

The West does more trade with China than with any other country. And yes it does hurt the West considering it is so dependent on China for everything including medicines! And a lot of that has to do with "wise men" in politics who decided it was cool to establish trade relations with a Dictatorship in the 1970s and ensured that the entire World's supply chain relied on said Dictatorship. If not for these "wise men", none of us would have been dependent on China in the first place.

[1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/28/chinas-ccp-warns-elon-musk-a...

replies(1): >>41422070 #
66. jajko ◴[] No.41416575{4}[source]
He was able to find or buy people and companies smart and capable enough to deliver this for him, and he was often, but not always smart enough to listen to them (ie tesla autopilot fiasco - example of an ego playing with him). He was so successful with spacex because nobody really dared/bothered to enter that space and existing companies had 0 pressure to deliver better but that's more of government fail. He personally didn't come up with any of those impressive feats like electric cars of vertical rocket landings, thats a ridiculous proposition when all he is is a competent manager.

Now he is slowly rolling back some of those hard won achievements, and competition catching up and/or overtaking in many others.

67. mikrotikker ◴[] No.41416619{4}[source]
Yes well that is their choice if they want to be authoritarians and inhibit the free speech of their citizens. Keep Twitter banned.
68. kshri24 ◴[] No.41416664{8}[source]
> You mean like Musk does.

"while Musk is a proponent of free speech, he believes that moderation on Twitter should ‘hew close to the laws of countries in which Twitter operates"

India has laws on content moderation, so does China, Turkey and other countries listed in the article. What Law in Brazil did X break? Or was it the whims and fancies of the Judge?

Quoting from X post below [1]:

“When we attempted to defend ourselves in court, Judge de Moraes threatened our Brazilian legal representative with imprisonment. Even after she resigned, he froze all of her bank accounts. Our challenges against his manifestly illegal actions were either dismissed or ignored. Judge de Moraes’ colleagues on the Supreme Court are either unwilling or unable to stand up to him.

We are absolutely not insisting that other countries have the same free speech laws as the United States. The fundamental issue at stake here is that Judge de Moraes demands we break Brazil’s own laws. We simply won’t do that.

In the days to come, we will publish all of Judge de Moraes’ illegal demands and all related court filings in the interest of transparency.

Unlike other social media and technology platforms, we will not comply in secret with illegal orders.”

[1]: https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1829296715989414281

replies(2): >>41416813 #>>41443754 #
69. ben_w ◴[] No.41416718{5}[source]
There are various accounts on Twitter which were being investigated etc. for criminal misconduct, Twitter was given a court order to block those accounts. I have no idea if that order was itself justified (IANAL and I don't speak Brazilian) but the orders were given by someone with authority to give them.

Twitter refused the order, which means that Twitter is interfering with the legal process in Brazil. This sounds like "contempt of court" to me, which is a thing which results in a judge sending people to prison — no idea what it is in Brazil, but IIRC the maximum penalty in my country of birth is 2 years' imprisonment.

Brazil's legal system requires companies like Twitter to have an office in the country in order to receive such orders, which I think means it's literally her job to make those orders happen. Regardless, by closing the office Twitter was directly violating Brazilian law.

As companies cannot themselves be imprisoned, I do not see what alternative there would be than directing obligations onto a specific human. Buck has to stop somewhere, and while I know a lot of people who would celebrate if this judge decided that the correct somewhere was "international arrest warrant/request extradition of Elon Musk personally", I suspect this judge would have to go through a few more checkboxes before that doesn't get "major diplomatic incident" written all over it.

(Perhaps less of an incident if it's concurrent with the EU saying "We're issuing Twitter with a 6% fine on their global annual turnover for non-compliance with the Digital Services Act", which seems to be another battle Musk is Leeroy-Jenkins-ing himself into).

replies(1): >>41418539 #
70. lossolo ◴[] No.41416745{3}[source]
> I think he legitimately believes that “the woke mind virus” is an existential threat to our society

Musk blames 'wokeness' for his daughter rejecting him after he didn't accept who she was. His entire conflict with the left and the 'woke' is centered around this one issue. He can't accept that he was rejected because of what he has done, so he needs someone else to blame and fight with. He bought X as his propaganda tool, he doesn't care about the consequences of his actions on society—he only wants to win.

> Musk is primarily driven by a savior complex

I don't think that's correct, it seems more likely that he was always driven by an inferiority complex.

replies(1): >>41440731 #
71. latexr ◴[] No.41416813{9}[source]
You keep saying “we”. Do you work for X, formerly Twitter? If not, who exactly are you? If you’re in any way related to the case or the companies or governments involved, there’s a major conflict of interest in this conversation and your defences. It’s good form to disclose those so that potential biases can be properly taken into consideration.
replies(1): >>41416907 #
72. kshri24 ◴[] No.41416907{10}[source]
Huh? I said: "Quoting from X post below" and I literally quoted the X post. WTF are you talking about?
replies(1): >>41417314 #
73. kshri24 ◴[] No.41416935{8}[source]
So your reply is to spam a bunch of links from Google Search. Cool!
replies(1): >>41417582 #
74. someguydave ◴[] No.41416953{4}[source]
how many other products do you ideologically affiliate with?
75. latexr ◴[] No.41417314{11}[source]
My mistake, I thought I saw the quote only on the first paragraph. Tangentially, this is why using > is generally better for long quoting sections.
replies(1): >>41421544 #
76. ◴[] No.41417582{9}[source]
77. darthrupert ◴[] No.41417701{4}[source]
I dislike Musk like many others, but I think Teslas are still the best EVs out there.
78. darthrupert ◴[] No.41417708{4}[source]
I dislike Musk like many others, but I think Teslas are still the best EVs out there and it's very possible that my next one is a Tesla too.
79. luckylion ◴[] No.41418539{6}[source]
I can't think of any country I'd consider having a strong rule of law that would start arresting employees for the actions of their companies that they themselves have no say in.

Effectively, the judge makes it impossible for X to defend itself in court because he'll just have anyone arrested who tries. That's not something you'll find in the developed world these days.

replies(1): >>41419021 #
80. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.41418721{7}[source]
> Considering a ton of podcasts talk about it and they're not in the tech bubble I'd say it's a pretty important topic especially in the US

Yes, like modern art. It’s talked about a lot. But it’s an obsession of a few and irrelevant to most Americans.

replies(1): >>41419166 #
81. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.41418724{7}[source]
> Considering a ton of podcasts talk about it and they're not in the tech bubble I'd say it's a pretty important topic especially in the US

Yes, like modern art. It’s talked about a lot, especially by a particular core who gain money and influence from it. But it’s an obsession of a few and irrelevant to most Americans. It certainly doesn’t build one a national platform.

82. ben_w ◴[] No.41419021{7}[source]
> Effectively, the judge makes it impossible for X to defend itself in court because he'll just have anyone arrested who tries.

No, on two counts.

First, Twitter is free to seek out a lawyer to represent them in court. Most people hire lawyers for contract work rather than as a permanent employee, so this remains possible even with no assets within Brazil.

Second, there was nothing to be defended until they refused to comply with the lawfully given order within the required deadline.

That they chose to fire their staff member and close the office in order to prevent compliance with the lawfully given order, was an actual offence in its own right. To my limited understanding, it is also an offence in its own right to refuse a lawfully given court order. But in both cases, Twitter was not being punished until they actually broke the law.

Courts in the UK and the USA may issue an injunction, both to prohibit and/or to compel an action, and this may bind on people not directly before the court:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injunction (note in particular that interim injunctions may be given prior to a ruling on the case itself)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injunctions_in_English_law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_order

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quia_timet

And, pertinently to Starlink: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_freezing

Compare and contrast Twitter in Brazil with Lavabit in the USA: Lavabit was ordered to provide certain information in secret (with an injunction to not talk about it); they protested, they first provided that information in an obtuse form that was considered contempt, they provided it in a form which was acceptable, then they closed their business in response and took further legal action in response to what they — and, to be clear, I — consider to have been a manner incompatible with the public view of American Democracy:

"""Levison said that he could be arrested for closing the site instead of releasing the information, and it was reported that the federal prosecutor's office had sent Levison's lawyer an email to that effect."""

and

"""Levison wrote that after being contacted by the FBI, he was subpoenaed to appear in federal court, and was forced to appear without legal representation because it was served on such short notice; in addition, as a third party, he had no right to representation, and was not allowed to ask anyone who was not an attorney to help find him one. He also wrote that in addition to being denied a hearing about the warrant to obtain Lavabit's user information, he was held in contempt of court. The appellate court denied his appeal due to no objection, however, he wrote that because there had been no hearing, no objection could have been raised. His contempt of court charge was also upheld on the ground that it was not disputed; similarly, he was unable to dispute the charge because there had been no hearing to do it in."""

83. wordofx ◴[] No.41419165{9}[source]
Well with climate change we have no scientists saying otherwise because we see they get attacked and lose funding by the quackery of the public and governments. As evident by the idiots on HN.
replies(1): >>41423357 #
84. jack_pp ◴[] No.41419166{8}[source]
I don't know man, I'm not even from the US and I meet a lot of people being concerned about wokeism being imported into our country, do you have any proof of your allegations?
85. kshri24 ◴[] No.41421544{12}[source]
Gotcha! I do typically use > but that is for quoting parent comment. But when quoting an article I put it within double quotes “ ”.
86. nox101 ◴[] No.41421553{4}[source]
I missed out on his climate change denialism - if true that seem strange from the head of one of the most successful EV companies and arguably the company that finally got the EV revolution started since all the others were dragging their feet. He further sells solar roofs and off grid power.
87. janalsncm ◴[] No.41422070{9}[source]
Free speech is a human right. Either Musk believes Chinese should enjoy free speech or he doesn’t. The fact that he seems to be more vocal about his business interests (Brazil) than actual human rights tells me he puts his mouth where his money is, not the other way around.
replies(1): >>41422257 #
88. antonvs ◴[] No.41422226{7}[source]
It’s not an important topic, any more than any other moral panic.
89. kshri24 ◴[] No.41422257{10}[source]
He has always said he believes everyone (which includes the Chinese too) should enjoy Free Speech (calling himself an absolutist) while at the same time saying that he will abide by Laws of the country. If the Chinese people want Free Speech it is for the Chinese people to revolt against the CCP. It is not Elon's decision as he is not operating X there. In the case of Brazil, the Judge wants X to break Brazilian laws, which X is not going to comply with. Simple as that. Free Speech became an issue only when the Judge banned X. It became an issue because Brazil has Free Speech Laws (or at least had in effect and not just on paper like China). If Brazil wants to go the CCP route then nothing can stop that from happening. Neither Elon, you or me.
90. pavlov ◴[] No.41423357{10}[source]
Funding is a red herring. Powerful interests would love to fund serious climate science that could assure the status quo is fine. If only they could find serious climate scientists willing to claim that.

Fifty years ago, there was no shortage of funding for medical scientists who tried to prove that tobacco didn't cause cancer. (You can guess where that funding came from.)

91. ben_w ◴[] No.41424830{6}[source]
> Why do we ask for gender on websites, for example? What is the purpose of it, really?

I can only think of two reasons:

1) Localised messages to and from the user. Not every language supports gender-neutral singular "you/they".

2) Demographic tracking e.g. for advertising: I've been given unskippable ads on YouTube for sanitary pads, and have forgotten which ad network presented me with one for dick pills.

replies(1): >>41434646 #
92. johnisgood ◴[] No.41434646{7}[source]
Hmm, are you sure about the localized messages? They typically use 'you' instead of third-person pronouns like 'he' or 'she.'
replies(1): >>41438905 #
93. ben_w ◴[] No.41438905{8}[source]
85% sure: the claim here was that there are some languages where "you" itself comes in masculine and feminine forms. I'm told this applies to Hebrew and Arabic — אתה and את — but my ability to confirm this is limited to googling wiktionary.

85% is mainly how much I trust the sources: my experience has been kind of factoid is often true, but sometimes turns out to be "this source sounds like it means X, but actually it means Y" or worse "we made it up and you'll never check".

That said, I ought to have written "I can only think of two *good* reasons", because the third reason is "whenever anyone makes a database of people, we automatically add gender without even thinking about it".

replies(1): >>41444179 #
94. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.41440731{4}[source]
> His entire conflict with the left and the 'woke' is centered around this one issue

Extreme doubt.

But that is probably the reason why he came out of the closet about his views.

I think a lot of people have similar views to his, they just keep quiet. Because, well, look at what happens to you if you don’t.

95. latexr ◴[] No.41443754{9}[source]
Well, that was fast.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/starlink-says-its-complyi...

Once again proving he’s all talk.

96. johnisgood ◴[] No.41444179{9}[source]
Wouldn't asking for "sex" suffice though? What happens when someone picks "none of the above" or "prefer not to answer"?