There Is No Antimemetics Division (2018)

I sent out about 8 copies of this book to friends/relatives for christmas a couple years ago, and it was very well received. It's not without flaws, but it's absolutely packed with novel concepts, relatively short, and provides a unique experience for unsuspecting readers. The physical book cover is quite good looking as well in my opinion.

I also loved Ra by the same author, but it felt a little messier plot-wise, so I hesitate to recommend it to an audience who isn't already accustomed to reading "out-there" online/sci-fi/rationalist fiction.

The cover reminds me of John Harris's _A Dream of Starlight_.

https://www.alisoneldred.com/john-harris/fine-art-prints-1/s...

I also came here to try and convince folks to read "Ra" which I thought was fantastic.

Though that being said, I feel like we're flipped on which is more "out there" as Ra feels much less slippery of an idea.

I love Ra. (also Fine Structure.) I don't think the plot is necessarily that much messier as much as it is more complex.

As in, this is super mega nerd shit. Unless you can relate things you're reading to things you've read before, it won't make too much sense to you. But if you're constructing a theory of the book's universe and story as you read, it's downright addictive.

I don't know where to find more books like those but I really, really want to.

Fine Structure too!

True, perhaps "messy" was the wrong word. I think what I was trying to get at was that I feel "There Is No Antimemetics Division" is more accessible for the average reader -- More narrowly focused, with a more immediate hook.

Regarding recommendations similar to Ra, it's not exactly the same thing, but https://unsongbook.com/ is fantastic and has a similar flavor I think.

Unsong is one of my favorite books ever, and the newly released print edition has some nice changes to the "base model" that I enjoyed a lot. The book honestly changed the way I thought about religion. It's fantastic.

(also, I liked Antimemetics, but not Ra, so I will just say I think unsong is leaps and bounds better than Ra)

> Regarding recommendations similar to Ra, it's not exactly the same thing, but https://unsongbook.com/ is fantastic and has a similar flavor I think.

The religious references on the actual website (and lack of much real explanation) made it very difficult for me to give it a chance, but I looked it up a bit and it seems like there is more to it than that, so maybe I'll give it a try.

edit: reading the first chapter definitely changed my first impression. It definitely has many similarities to qntm's writing. I will certainly be reading more...

I haven't read Ra but if people like a mix of magic, fantasy, scifi, govt techno thriller, history and even romance, I highly recommend the Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O.

I think it's best read with no summary or introduction but if you are a Neal Stephenson fan, I think you would like it.

There’s no resemblance at all.

Fine structure is great!

I've read most of Stephenson's books, and loved many of them, but the only one I absolutely tell people to never read is the Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O. (despite the signed copy on my shelf). I haven't read it since publication, so the details are a bit hazy now, but I remember it feeling like a waste. The conceit is: What if there were a government organization that dealt with <cool scifi thing>, and we emulated that with high fidelity – complete with lots of reporting and bureaucracy . To me, it made <cool scifi thing> about as fun to read about as... tedious government bureaucracy.

It's nice to hear that other people really liked it. Definitely highlights the breadth of approaches and styles that Stephenson has.

“Why would God do that?”

“STOP TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE WILL OF GOD,” said Uriel. “IT NEVER HELPS.” --the archangel Uriel

> if people like a mix of magic, fantasy, scifi, govt techno thriller, history and even romance, I highly recommend

Tim Powers! https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/8835.Tim_Powers

>To me, it made <cool scifi thing> about as fun to read about as... tedious government bureaucracy.

This is also the problem with Charles Stross' Nightmare Stacks. The concept was kinda funny in 2004, but by book number 10 it just gets tedious. The reader cries out, What is the point of all this, and Stross answers with a shrug.

Let me tell you my "avoid at all costs" Stephenson book is Termination Shock. Woooooof. Compared to Reamde, for instance, it was nowhere near as interesting or clever for being a near-future setting. The story functionally goes nowhere, does nothing, and it takes a goddamn age to get there. It opens with 70 pages on feral swine hunting for chrissake. And the muddled "America as a failed technostate" idea was just more slog. Woof.

I learned about the Line of Actual Control, so say this about Neal, you always learn something.

But I loved Seveneves, for instance. Replace feral hogs with orbital mechanics but there was a pacing and thriller quality to it that was super compelling.

And Anathem is probably my favorite. It has such a compelling core conceit to it and the way that manifests is deeply interesting.

Snow Crash is brash and "edgy" and a bit eye-rolly (everyone is a pizza delivery driver?) but it is also one of the patron saints of cyberpunk and is a worthwhile read (though it suffers a bit from Neal's habit to literally crash land his books at times.)

And somewhere in the middle of the pack is DODO which is just odd and quirky and a bit out there but was still enjoyable, to me.

My problem is it goes nowhere and does nothing, and doesn't ever particularly rise to any compelling story arc along the way.

I was hoping for more drama? More conflict? Instead, hardly anything happens. And woo boy is it "trying to be too relevant" and it'll age terribly. Covid. Drones. Kashoggi. Deep fakes. It was all backwards looking, rather than forward facing. When good scifi or spec fiction works best is when it transports me to a new and interesting world, or crafts a universe that challenges the orthodoxy in a way that makes me pause and keep extending the thought experiment.

TS had none of that. It's just 70 pages of pigs, slogging through a hurricane remnant, a Dutch dam failing, a big sulfur gun to change the climate (maybe, mostly, we never really get into its impact or like some unintended Snowpiercer effect) and then deep fakes and way way way too long training in traditional Indian martial arts. And yet, through all of that, it really goes nowhere and does nothing.

Probably one of my favorite parts so far:

> "Are you all right?" Sohu finally asked.

> "I WAS TRYING TO WIGGLE MY EARS."

> Sohu wiggled her ears again.

> "YOU ARE VERY INTERESTING."

> "So will you teach me the kabbalah?"

> "NO."

it's so cute!! I love this

I just finished Termination Shock last month! I thought it was super interesting, and I learned a lot about the LAC. Kind of funny to read as a Dutch person, too.

I feel like Stephenson's 'recent' novels are longer and more rambling, but that was exactly what I wanted after reading all of John Scalzi's works in a row.

Finished Anathem last week, that was also amazing.

I always think of this part from Wonderboys:

https://youtu.be/BrVl1hWrWBs?si=UPgOdjd6ujlJ1UKP&t=95

You might be the first person that I've recommended Unsong to that actually gave it a chance. :)

That's probably because the website doesn't have any hook at all! I had to google the book and find a summary of it in order to actually get curious. Then the first few paragraphs into the first chapter, it had already gotten me. The writing style is almost exactly like that of Ra. And it has over 70 chapters. wonderful!!

also, I love how many references it makes to actual programming; it's always hilarious to see Uriel explaining code bugs in reality.

I think Unsong is less math/physics and more just mega nerd. But it has a very very similar vibe. I love it so far (on chapter 20 or so right now).