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The New Internet

(tailscale.com)
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zokier ◴[] No.41082782[source]
Of course these ideas are not that new. IPv6 was supposed to give end-to-end connectivity to all, and originally IPsec was supposed to be mandatory part of IPv6, giving each internet host cryptographic identity. And so on.
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Fnoord ◴[] No.41083323[source]
I was curious why the article didn't mention IPv6 at all, since Tailscale does support it.

IPv6 -together with WireGuard- gives privacy, security, and performance. The downside is the complexity to set it up.

Tailscale builds on the shoulder of giants. IPv4, WireGuard, Samy Kamkar NAT punching, OpenSSH, and probably many more. One of the upsides is the combination of these, and that the management interface in general is easy. But what counts for CA is also true for Tailscale: both are using FOSS to in the end deliver a (proprietary) service.

But because almost everything is build on top of FOSS and there's Headscale (and they're cool with it), this isn't a major issue to me. Like, it is a downside, but not a major one, as vendor lock-in is practically non-existent. In fact, it is likely an upside from a business/support PoV.

replies(2): >>41083432 #>>41085669 #
wmf ◴[] No.41083432[source]
Apenwarr is kind of an IPv6 hater. He thinks it's not going to happen.
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Borg3 ◴[] No.41085092[source]
Because IPv6 is mistake. Thats why market does NOT want it. Unfortunately, we all start to feel the heat of IPv4 exhaustion.

Anyway, remember IPv4 classes? Then they made it classless. IPv6 is not 128bit, its just 64bit with 64bit host address. So, first mistake. IPsec mandatory? pure stupidity. Crypto moves fast, every 10 years many protocols are obsoleted. How you will provide E2E connectivity with that?

In 1997 IPv6 was seriously immature yet to start migration. Additionaly, it was very different from IPv4 so was mostly ignored. What IPng team should do, is just take IPv4, extended it to 64bit, call it IPv6 and we are done. As bonus, they should think about some basic IPv6 -> IPv4 interop so clients would NOT need to be dual stack. And that could work back then. Now we are fucked.

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1. throw0101d ◴[] No.41086097[source]
> Crypto moves fast, every 10 years many protocols are obsoleted. How you will provide E2E connectivity with that?

Negotiation. IPsec using IKEv2 (RFC 4306/7296) started with (e.g.) 3DES when it was initially released, but now allows for AES (RFC 3602, 3686, etc), as well as other algorithms:

* https://www.iana.org/assignments/ikev2-parameters/ikev2-para...

> What IPng team should do, is just take IPv4, extended it to 64bit, call it IPv6 and we are done.

For anyone curious, the technical criteria for choosing the (then-labelled) IPng:

* https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1726

And the evaluation of the available candidates and why the winner was chosen:

* https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1752

One of the IPng candidates, SIPP, indeed did extend addressing from 32-bits to 64-bits (RFC 1710, RFC 1752 § 7.2), but it was deemed that it may not enough and another transition would be even more difficult, so they went with 128-bits (RFC 1752 § 9).

Adding mechanisms for auto-configuration was one of the criteria for IPng; per RFC 1726 § 5.8:

    CRITERION
       The protocol must permit easy and largely distributed
       configuration and operation. Automatic configuration of hosts and
       routers is required.
    
    DISCUSSION
       People complain that IP is hard to manage.  We cannot plug and
       play.  We must fix that problem.
       
       We do note that fully automated configuration, especially for
       large, complex networks, is still a topic of research.  Our
       concern is mostly for small and medium sized, less complex,
       networks; places where the essential knowledge and skills would
       not be as readily available.
       
       In dealing with this criterion, address assignment and delegation
       procedures and restrictions should be addressed by the proposal.
       Furthermore, "ownership" of addresses (e.g., user or service
       provider) has recently become a concern and the issue should be
       addressed.
       
       We require that a node be able to dynamically obtain all of its
       operational, IP-level parameters at boot time via a dynamic
       configuration mechanism.
       […]
In a world of IoT, not having to have a BOOTP/DHCP(v4) seems like decent foresight.