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The Public Interest Internet

(berjon.com)
113 points recifs | 9 comments | 18 Jun 24 05:37 UTC | HN request time: 2.296s | source | bottom
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roenxi ◴[18 Jun 24 08:38 UTC] No.40715398[source]▶
> So, say you want to create a new web standard...

This and the following image have a misguided understanding of the market. We know how this situation plays out because we ran exactly that experiment in the 2000s with Firefox and IE6. Those market share numbers are contingent on Google doing the best possible job as curators insofar as the userbase can tell.

If there are browser features that users want (like tabs) or web standards that enable Cool New Stuff (like modern JS) then users will go out of their way to install browsers that support them. Firefox got all the way to around 20-30% of the market before MS's control of the web collapsed and we entered the current era.

The "problem" that competitors of Google face is that Google is a rather competent steward of web standards. Their browser engine is hard to compete with because it is very good, their web standards are hard to compete with because they are largely appropriate.

Although I stand by a prediction I have that the next wave will be when a Brave-like model takes hold and the price of browsing the web drops from free to negative. With crypto we are surely getting to spitting distance of advertisers paying users directly to look at ads instead of paying Google to organise the web such that users look at ads.

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1. marginalia_nu ◴[18 Jun 24 09:15 UTC] No.40715587[source]▶
> If there are browser features that users want (like tabs) [...] then users will go out of their way to install browsers that support them.

The prerequisite of this is that such a web browser exists, which is not a given. I'd sacrifice an arm for a web browser that has non-disappearing natively themed scroll bars since due to accessibility issues I struggle with scroll wheels.

This is not a big technical ask, yet to date, the only one I've found that offers this is Falkon, which unfortunately stuck on an old version of qt's webkit port meaning a bunch of websites break with it.

You have a lot of choices but almost all of them are the same, or suck; or both.

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2. severine ◴[18 Jun 24 11:27 UTC] No.40716471[source]▶
I'd sacrifice an arm for a web browser that has non-disappearing natively themed scroll bars since due to accessibility issues I struggle with scroll wheels.

Doesn't Firefox work at this?

1.Go to about:preferences or open the Firefox preferences via the UI

2.Scroll down until you get to a section titled "Browsing", or search for "scroll"

3.Check the setting "Always show scrollbars"

ref: https://superuser.com/questions/1720362/firefox-scroll-bar-d...

Go Marginalia!

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3. marginalia_nu ◴[18 Jun 24 12:51 UTC] No.40717231[source]▶
Problem is that it's too narrow, makes it hard to click. That's why I'm specifically looking for a native widget.
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4. tutipop ◴[18 Jun 24 15:05 UTC] No.40718641{3}[source]▶
In about:config

  widget.non-native-theme.scrollbar.size.override 20 
  widget.non-native-theme.scrollbar.style  4
  widget.gtk.overlay-scrollbars.enabled   false
I even use a custom gtk.css to improve things further:

  scrollbar, scrollbar button, scrollbar slider {
    -GtkScrollbar-has-backward-stepper: true;
    -GtkScrollbar-has-secondary-forward-stepper: true;
    -GtkScrollbar-has-forward-stepper: true;
    min-width: 20px;
    min-height: 20px;
    border-radius: 0;
  }
It's a shame we have to resort to this to get decent scrollbar behavior.
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5. kwhitefoot ◴[18 Jun 24 21:19 UTC] No.40722277{4}[source]▶
Thank you! How the hell is anyone supposed to discover things like this?
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6. zzo38computer ◴[18 Jun 24 21:21 UTC] No.40722283{5}[source]▶
Software should include documentation, which should mention all of the commands used there, so that you can know how to do it. Unfortunately, many of the settings are not very well documented, and the document is hard to find.
7. Vinnl ◴[18 Jun 24 21:50 UTC] No.40722483{5}[source]▶
Good luck designing a UI that includes settings for scrollbar width and other settings of that granularity in which any of those settings are discoverable...
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8. WarOnPrivacy ◴[18 Jun 24 22:52 UTC] No.40722934{6}[source]▶
> Good luck designing a UI [with] settings for scrollbar width and [similar] in which any of those settings are discoverable...

Like Windows XP?

ref: https://www.simplehelp.net/2009/08/04/how-to-enlarge-or-shri...

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9. Vinnl ◴[19 Jun 24 12:57 UTC] No.40727851{7}[source]▶
Exactly. Admittedly I was a lot younger then, but I had a hard time finding even relatively simple options in the nested menus and tabs of Windows XP.