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466 points CoolCold | 16 comments | | HN request time: 1.143s | source | bottom
1. Xeamek ◴[] No.40216342[source]
2 weeks ago I didn't understood the systemd hate. But I tried to run udev-requiring program on non-systemd based distro.

And now I don't like systemd anymore.

replies(3): >>40216750 #>>40216857 #>>40217077 #
2. suprjami ◴[] No.40216750[source]
So, you don't like a component because you ran software which requires that component, and you intentionally ran it in an environment without that component.

That does not make sense to me?

replies(3): >>40216780 #>>40216814 #>>40217775 #
3. rezonant ◴[] No.40216780[source]
Well, I tried to run a Mac binary on Windows and it didn't work, so now I don't like Mac.
4. vpzom ◴[] No.40216814[source]
The popularity of systemd encourages people to require it, which is the major problem

that said iirc udev was formerly separate and active forks still exist

replies(1): >>40217156 #
5. bhaney ◴[] No.40216857[source]
You must absolutely despise libc
replies(2): >>40217113 #>>40217810 #
6. deadbunny ◴[] No.40217077[source]
I tried filling up a Tesla at a gas station.

And now I don't like electric cars anymore.

replies(1): >>40217177 #
7. lmm ◴[] No.40217113[source]
libc has multiple independent implementations, if you don't like one you can switch to another. Software that hard-depends on a specific libc is indeed to be despised.
8. JoshTriplett ◴[] No.40217156{3}[source]
> The popularity of systemd encourages people to require it, which is the major problem

The usefulness of systemd encourages people to require it. Projects most often require it in cases where either there isn't an alternative, the alternative isn't maintained, or the alternative is missing functionality.

replies(1): >>40217848 #
9. lupusreal ◴[] No.40217177[source]
You joke but the inability of BEVs to make use of the gas station infrastructure is probably their number one obstacle to mass adoption.
replies(1): >>40217411 #
10. shrimp_emoji ◴[] No.40217411{3}[source]
You just rent some parking space for the charge pylons. Probably off to the side where the self-service wash hose/tire pump usually is.
replies(1): >>40218225 #
11. Xeamek ◴[] No.40217775[source]
No.

I don't like a framework that promotes using components that are arbitrary dependent on it.

To use udev, I need systemd-init, and to use systemd-init I need systemd boot.

I really don't believe it MUST be this way, and those requirements aren't at least partially arbitral.

Why systemd refuses to run in chroot?

replies(1): >>40219446 #
12. Xeamek ◴[] No.40217810[source]
The difference is that I can solve libc dependency at comp time (statically linked against it), while systemd dependencies require runtime support.
13. Xeamek ◴[] No.40217848{4}[source]
Self perpetuating growth. Systemd integrates many functions so people default using it and add even more functionality that bring even more people into ecosystem.

Which is basically how every tech ecosystem works.

The problem is that linux is supposed to not be just_another_centrally_controlled_ecosystem, so when systemd abuses their popularity by enforcing whole ecosystem (rather then cut itself into separate pieces), that is worrying

replies(1): >>40225537 #
14. vdqtp3 ◴[] No.40218225{4}[source]
The energy bandwidth of a charger as opposed to a gas pump is a huge issue right now.

Gas pumps can easily pump up to 10gpm [1], corresponding to 300 miles of charge in 3-5 minutes as opposed to Superchargers, which take 15 minutes to charge enough for 200 miles of driving[2].

When this is improved, it will make BEV's much more acceptable to many people.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pump#Design

[2] https://www.energysage.com/ev-charging/tesla-supercharger-gu...

15. BenjiWiebe ◴[] No.40219446{3}[source]
You don't actually need to use systems-boot to use systemd-init. They're two separate things.
16. JoshTriplett ◴[] No.40225537{5}[source]
It seems like you're attributing to perceived malice ("enforcing") what is better explained by a combination of trying to get things done and not prioritizing replaceability higher than the benefits of integration. In other words, a project that simply has different priorities.

It turns out that many other people also like seeing stuff get done more so than they care whether the project in question is trivially replaceable.