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662 points JacobHenner | 43 comments | | HN request time: 1.586s | source | bottom
1. CPLX ◴[] No.40214140[source]
Maybe some day someone will explain what “normalizing” means, specifically what people mean by the “don’t normalize X” construction.

Pretty sure between Dr. Dre and Willie Nelson weed got normalized decades ago by any definition I understand.

replies(1): >>40214409 #
2. grzeshru ◴[] No.40214159[source]
Has society ever been safe, productive or prosperous? I’d argue it hasn’t. I think smaller collectives have managed to eek out a bit of solace but society as a whole has always been at each other’s throats. Our notion of productivity is mostly moved forward by one hand not seeing the other.
replies(2): >>40214357 #>>40217777 #
3. causal ◴[] No.40214205[source]
I don't smoke tobacco, I seldom drink, and I don't use marijuana. Those are habits I hope my kids avoid too. Nonetheless I would never wish for a world where my kids go to prison for failing to avoid them.
replies(1): >>40215862 #
4. triceratops ◴[] No.40214252[source]
> A safe, productive and prosperous society cannot be built by drug addicts.

Historian Niall Ferguson has argued that the British Empire was built on a collective caffeine and sugar high, from imported tea and cane sugar from its colonies and trading partners.

replies(2): >>40214756 #>>40219278 #
5. ncr100 ◴[] No.40214338[source]
Sorta right, sorta wrong, premise is weak -- Weed is NOT PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE. It can be psychologically.

Beer / hard liquor IS PHYSICALLY addictive. Cigarettes ARE. Caffeine IS.

replies(1): >>40214836 #
6. snarf21 ◴[] No.40214341[source]
Serious question: Do you feel just as strongly about alcohol, nicotine, gambling and sugar? Those all have an enormous societal costs as well.
replies(2): >>40214361 #>>40215766 #
7. bongodongobob ◴[] No.40214342[source]
Ok, only leafy greens and protein pills for you, plus 2 hours of exercise per day and a mandated 9:30 PM bedtime. It's for your own good.
8. golergka ◴[] No.40214357[source]
Modern first world countries are incredibly safe, productive and prosperous by any historical measure. You have to have a completely skewed perspective not to see this.
9. bongodongobob ◴[] No.40214361[source]
Of course not, those are normal. /s
10. ◴[] No.40214384[source]
11. kstrauser ◴[] No.40214397[source]
I bet a huge portion of the people here are physically addicted to caffeine, a powerful psychoactive stimulant.
replies(1): >>40214424 #
12. umvi ◴[] No.40214409[source]
"Normalize" in this sense means "to make culturally acceptable". A thing can be legal but still be taboo, for example, in Japan tattoos are legal but you might get discriminated against at an onsen if the owner doesn't want tattoos on display in their establishment.

Weed might be "normalized" in some communities, but a large portion of Americans will silently judge you if you are a recreational drug user regardless of it is weed or cocaine or fentanyl. Contrast to, say, beer or wine, which the majority of Americans will not silently judge you for indulging in moderation.

replies(2): >>40214993 #>>40216575 #
13. lambdaba ◴[] No.40214414[source]
It's hard to know where to start when someone espouses this mentality, but I suggest you start with looking up a chart of addiction VS harm for different substances, you might be in for a surprise.
14. lambdaba ◴[] No.40214424[source]
As Terence McKenna used to say, caffeine is legal because it keeps the worker bees working throughout the afternoon.
replies(2): >>40214721 #>>40216213 #
15. btreecat ◴[] No.40214430[source]
Yet it's often claimed that civilization and brewing alcohol grow in tandem. We certainly have evidence of its importance in Egypt, Europe, and Africa come to mind as traveling along side cultural growth.

https://www.tota.world/article/1611/#:~:text=The%20first%20b....

Do you have evidence to support your counterclaims?

16. vundercind ◴[] No.40214435[source]
It’s a less-harmful alcohol substitute. I have multiple friends who’ve gone “California sober” and it has sure looked like nothing but a good change.

It’s by far the best sleep aid I’ve personally found. Practically miraculous. Huge change for the better, I’ve gone several months at a time without it on a couple occasions since starting and holy crap, life used to be terrible. Extremely low-risk, doesn’t leave me hung over feeling like a lot of the legal sleep aids do. Plus, hell, it’s a lot of fun to watch some MST3K while it’s kicking in.

Almost no serious interactions, so you can take it while ill and having to take other drugs, to help (enormously) with sleep or appetite or whatever.

For that matter, having a damn effective pain reliever and sleep aid that you can just keep on hand for when you get the flu or something, and not have to go suffer through a waiting room for a prescription while ill, is a giant QOL boost.

17. timbit42 ◴[] No.40214618[source]
> hooked

Tobacco and alcohol are much more addictive than weed, yet they are legal.

18. zingababba ◴[] No.40214721{3}[source]
He said that while high on cannabis, most definitely.
replies(1): >>40214770 #
19. ciabattabread ◴[] No.40214756[source]
Don't forget about tobacco and opium.
replies(1): >>40214915 #
20. lambdaba ◴[] No.40214770{4}[source]
He was a self-confessed chronic user, granted, it was old-school weed so I don't know how that would scale with what's available nowadays.
21. lambdaba ◴[] No.40214836[source]
Sugar is! AND it causes great long-term harm, hard to quantify how much since there is basically no control group, since it's given to children early on, it's put in near everything, and it's cheap as dirt.
replies(1): >>40215164 #
22. triceratops ◴[] No.40214915{3}[source]
I don't think the Brits were using the opium when empire-building.
23. astura ◴[] No.40214916[source]
They aren't planning on legalizing it for recreational use, this move would just reclassify it from schedule 1 to schedule 3.
24. jjulius ◴[] No.40214976[source]
>A safe, productive and prosperous society cannot be built by drug addicts.

Yet much of it has been, and continues to be built by, people who use drugs.

25. jjulius ◴[] No.40214993{3}[source]
>Contrast to, say, beer or wine, which the majority of Americans will not silently judge you for indulging in moderation.

In point of fact, it's often flipped around. It's only been the last few years that I can tell someone I don't drink and be met with lots of, "Good for you!"s rather than silent judgement.

replies(1): >>40216142 #
26. dukeyukey ◴[] No.40215072[source]
> A safe, productive and prosperous society cannot be built by drug addicts.

Between alcohol, nicotine and arguably caffeine, every vaguely successful society was built on drugs.

27. dukeyukey ◴[] No.40215164{3}[source]
I don’t think sugar is physically addictive, as in your body gets negative physiological symptoms from cutting back.
replies(1): >>40215274 #
28. lambdaba ◴[] No.40215274{4}[source]
True, I misread the comment, although for someone consuming a lot of sugar quitting cold-turkey is going to be uncomfortable physically.
29. cynicalsecurity ◴[] No.40215766[source]
I've seen way too much harm done by alcohol than good. Unfortunately, it's already normalised since ages, but I'm glad it's getting regarded in a negative light more and more.

People complain about being sent to jail for weed as if this they are suffering a political persecution, but people can get in legal trouble for drinking alcohol in public places or illegally producing or selling it as well. In some European countries, if both parents are caught drinking alcohol at the same time, even just beer, they'll be stripped of their parental rights. Imagine if that would be a law in America for people who smoke weed. This would be called a genocide or something along the lines of political persecution, some absolutely laughable arguments.

Cigarettes are straightforward evil and harmful. The usage of tobacco is extremely idiotic, it was normalised and promoted by the tobacco companies for profit, despite all the known negative effects.

Gambling must be strictly forbidden. It's pure evil and it's only harming both people and society. In America, gambling isn't freely available to people, same as in many other countries. Try to run a casino in your back yard and get to enjoy the company of some handsome guys in blue. Is it oppression?

Sugar should be limited, same as many other harmful components used in the food production. Excessive usage of sugar leads to obesity which again, is bad for everyone. European countries pretty much do some really good job in this regard.

I'm really annoyed by the hypocrisy of people who so eagerly try to promote and normalise weed as if this is going to help everyone. It wouldn't. I really wouldn't want to see my children smoking it, offered by some chavs who would be friends of their friends I would not approve because of their low behaviour. Weed is same bad as alcohol, nicotine, gambling and sugar you mentioned. It slows down intellectual development of children and degrades the intellect of adults as well. Yes, weed can be a good antidepressant or a pain-relieving medication - if consumed for a short period of time and strictly when it's necessary. This whole hysteria with legalisation of weed reminds me of tobacco companies aggressively promoting cigarettes through the media back in the previous century or modern pharma peddling opioids.

replies(1): >>40217826 #
30. cynicalsecurity ◴[] No.40215862[source]
But they do. Your kids will be put to prison for drunk driving, drinking in public places or you will go to prison for buying them booze. Is it an oppressive world? Do you feel the urge of strongly fighting against it and promote alcohol? I'm amazed how people regard fighting for legalisation of yet another drug as some sort of a freedom fighting act.
replies(1): >>40225274 #
31. qup ◴[] No.40216142{4}[source]
I never had a drink until I was 27, and at the time, I found it easier to keep that a secret than to talk about it.

But you're right. I'm not drinking again, and people are way less likely to question that choice now. I can't remember the last time it was questioned, actually.

32. underseacables ◴[] No.40216213{3}[source]
I think this is why North Korea allows marijuana and meth.
replies(1): >>40217799 #
33. CPLX ◴[] No.40216575{3}[source]
Well yeah. But thats why the premise makes no sense. At this point weed is as culturally acceptable as anything else as far as I can tell. And I travel a lot, that's true in Texas and NYC and wherever else.
34. hansoolo ◴[] No.40217777[source]
Common go back to Twitter already
35. hansoolo ◴[] No.40217799{4}[source]
Can you give some evidence for that? Curious
replies(1): >>40221937 #
36. hansoolo ◴[] No.40217826{3}[source]
>In some European countries, if both parents are caught drinking alcohol at the same time, even just beer, they'll be stripped of their parental rights.

Which countries exactly? Never heard of that

replies(1): >>40228661 #
37. sorwin ◴[] No.40219278[source]
Neither sugar nor caffeine has the same effects as drugs like alcohol and marijuana. It's pretty asinine to classify them as even being in the same category.
replies(1): >>40222431 #
38. seattle_spring ◴[] No.40219811[source]
It's disappointing that this guy can call cannabis users "drug addicts" and get away with it, but we can't really respond in-kind without breaking HN rules.
39. underseacables ◴[] No.40221937{5}[source]
Google is your friend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/world/asia/north-korea-cr...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/nn4ywx/north-korea-is-stoned...

40. triceratops ◴[] No.40222431{3}[source]
Are you suggesting the British didn't have alcohol during their empire building phase?
41. causal ◴[] No.40225274{3}[source]
Well that's a topic shift. Outlawing a thing is not the same as outlawing its abuse.

I'm against drunk driving, yes. I'm also against pilots flying without any sleep. But I would disagree with the assertion that anyone who stays up late belongs in prison.

Sometimes the "cure" (in this case, prison time) is worse than the "disease" (marijuana use).

replies(1): >>40228653 #
42. cynicalsecurity ◴[] No.40228653{4}[source]
That's quite a stretch, comparing lack of sleep to marijuana. Lack of sleep doesn't get you hooked.

I've been pretty happy about cigarettes getting gradually outlawed, now I'm supposed to be cheering the rise of marijuana? As if we don't have enough junkies already.

43. cynicalsecurity ◴[] No.40228661{4}[source]
Poland.