My sixth year as a bootstrapped founder

I think people (and the founder) are focusing on yearly profits as their remuneration and comparing it to a salary... but the reality is you're creating a company that should be valued (and eventually sell) for 7-15X Earnings - and you really should be looking at that increase in value vs your increase in profits. In reality your net worth went up by over $1.5 million in the last year, in addition to earning 236k - that is the actual value you created for yourself in the last year and not the 236k you cashflowed.

I find it redeeming that despite having a gift for development - software and hardware - the biggest factors affecting profitability and growth here are things that most MBAs would do in a business quite regularly (outsourcing design/packaging/fulfillment, streamlining costs, doing price elasticity experiments, polling customers and markets for product improvement).

I enjoyed seeing the inverted perspective that product/engineering is straightforward and low risk but things like optimizing fulfillment and operating costs is a new exciting endeavor.

One tip I suggest doing is leveraging google ads to figure out features that customers are willing to pay for before you build them... if they're clicking the ad they are searching for it and interested in buying it. Start a few very low cap campaigns calling out features you are thinking of building into the product, and see which one get's the most impressions and clicks per marketing dollar and focus on that. The added advantage is you know it will be easier to buy advertising for it once the feature is done.

You're missing something. From the post:

> I don’t draw a salary, so the total amount I earned from TinyPilot in 2023 was $236k.

and

> Result: I worked 35-40 hours per week, a reduction from previous years, and traveled more than any previous year.

This is a person who is effectively full-time CEO of this business and whose market salary is likely at least $236k. If they sold the business, the new owners would have to pay someone else to put in those 35 hours.

Maybe the new owner could employ a less-skilled manager and pay them less, or maybe there's still lots of potential growth or room to cut costs, but that's all quite speculative: right now the business has a profit, and therefore a valuation, closer to zero.

> right now the business has a profit, and therefore a valuation, closer to zero

You’re thinking of this like an engineer rather than a business person.

1. When selling a business like this, the $236k would be called SDI or SDE (seller discretionary income/earnings).

2. The buyer determines what, if any, of that SDE will need to go to paying someone to do what the seller does. These duties could be assumed by the buyer, they could be assumed by existing people the buyer employees, the tasks could be reduced or eliminated, etc.

3. Based on 2, the buyer will typically adjust the earnings multiple that they are willing to buy at.

4. For complex businesses that need someone doing one or more specific roles, the listing agency for the business, if good, will encourage the seller to fill certain roles to improve the overall salability of the business and multiple of earnings that it will be sold at.

5. Without really looking into the business, I’m almost certain that it can be sold for much closer to $1m (or more!) than to your suggestion of (edit) closer to $0.

He's thinking about it like a business person who is looking at buying a business. It's worth close to zero. In it's current state this business is not an asset, it's a organization doing stuff.

Breaking it out into SDE + adjustment is what the comment already does, albeit without using that terminology.

One cannot hire a person who can do all the things this owner does. The person is a smart former google engineer. These people don't grow on trees. It would take a few people to do a bad approximation of what he does. The adjustment to SDE is going to be 100's of k and you get to 0 cash thrown off.

> It's worth close to zero.

Serious question… have you bought a business before?

It’s what I do.

This business is not worth close to zero, and the stuff that the current owner does (even if he’s some miracle worker, which xooglers aren’t guaranteed to be) can be handled any number of ways that cost less than $236k by some buyer. This may not mean you or the person that I replied to, but you two most likely aren’t a part (and certainly not a significant part) of the market of buyers for businesses like this.

I can’t tell if you’re circle jerking the owner, xooglers, or the (limiting) engineering way of thinking about businesses.

Yes. Lots of them.

Who is the buyer? The logical buyer of this hardware business doing $1m per year and can backfill all the things this guy does at some low enough number that this business generates cash. And then, enough cash that it's worthwhile to go through diligence and paper up a deal and take on the risk that there isn't skeletons in the closet.

> Who is the buyer?

Realistically, the best buyer would be someone who has deep connections in a market that the current owner hasn’t penetrated that could 5x the volume almost instantly.

They would hem and haw about whatever small multiple the seller is asking for, and then laugh all the way to the bank after close.

I’ve seen this happen many, many times.

> And then, enough cash that it's worthwhile to go through diligence and paper up a deal and take on the risk that there isn't skeletons in the closet

For a business of this relatively small size, an agency would likely be used, and they would do all of this scutwork, and their fee is paid by the seller. Which agency or agencies have you used (if any)?

> Realistically, the best buyer would be someone who has deep connections in a market that the current owner hasn’t penetrated that could 5x the volume almost instantly.

This is a nice theory. And it could be true, and it does happen, but it's more than likely not.

You must be using better M&A brokerages/bankers than I ever have. None of them do actual diligence, they are selling the business...They are actively making the business look different to what it is. They certainly don't take on any risk (they are not a party to the agreement in any way) and they certainly don't obviate the need to use and pay a lawyer (and most small deals are each person pays their own costs).

With respect, are you actually buying businesses? Or just doing contracted technical DD? It feels like you are missing a good chunk of the picture here. The default take on the value of this business by a lot of folks buying businesses is going to be "close to zero". I mean, to be fair, I have not ever bought a hardware business so I'm a little out of my depth here... but.. not miles out.