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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

(apnews.com)
517 points xbar | 4 comments | 26 Jan 24 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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locallost ◴[26 Jan 24 21:36 UTC] No.39148816[source]▶
My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin

Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246

Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important.

Quote:

"Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers."

And

"This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle."

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pgeorgi ◴[26 Jan 24 21:43 UTC] No.39148909[source]▶
All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then?

Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7?

This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

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locallost ◴[26 Jan 24 22:14 UTC] No.39149385[source]▶
If I knew the answer to that question I would be a high ranked politician. But for me it's important to keep in mind what he is saying here and also in another part explicitly: a diplomatic solution is possible and history proves that. So what I can do is reject the notion that what is happening is unavoidable.
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noqc ◴[26 Jan 24 22:44 UTC] No.39149830[source]▶
How does history prove any such thing? That's neither how history or proof work. Most of the wars that have been resolved to everyone's benefit have done so by the unconditional surrender of the aggressors, followed by amicable reconstruction.
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locallost ◴[27 Jan 24 07:14 UTC] No.39153375[source]▶
It provides examples that it happened and thus proves it's possible.
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noqc ◴[27 Jan 24 21:52 UTC] No.39160228[source]▶
I'm not convinced by the examples that you have listed (a conspicuously empty list at that), and examples are only evidence by analogy anyway. The reactivity of hydrogen is not proof of the reactivity of helium.
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1. locallost ◴[27 Jan 24 23:59 UTC] No.39161106[source]▶
The list is empty if you haven't read what I originally posted and linked. Obviously you haven't. Politics is neither chemistry nor physics, it is what is referred to as the art of the impossible. Many nasty situations in the past seemed impossible to solve diplomatically, but it was made possible. No matter how bleak it might have looked. Again, refer to the link I posted that kicked off this discussion.
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2. noqc ◴[28 Jan 24 01:54 UTC] No.39161788[source]▶
I assure you that I read the tweet, and the list remains utterly null.

In a broader sense, I don't fault you for looking at war and thinking, or rather hoping, that in a just world, this wouldn't be the solution to any problem.

It is unsettled whether or not humanity can create such a just world, but we certainly haven't done it yet. Requiring the unconditional surrender of Hamas through force is very much a reasonable and acceptable way forward.

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3. locallost ◴[28 Jan 24 06:31 UTC] No.39163077[source]▶
"And that's the cunning of history; when you're at the bottom, something can happen that gives hope. After the 1973 war, who would have thought that before the end of the decade, Egypt would sign a peace treaty with Israel?"

so at least the list is obviously > 0. That's a good starting point for you to reconsider where else you've made a mistake.

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4. noqc ◴[28 Jan 24 17:03 UTC] No.39167574{3}[source]▶
Alliances are not the same as peace. Egypt's tepid alliance with Israel has also served to anger the rest of the islamic world, and Gaza in particular is much more isolated as a result. This is one of those apples to oranges comparisons that you assured me weren't relevant.