ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

Furthermore there is Israeli reporting on the practical use of Hannibal Directive during Oct 7, which is deliberate killing of military and civilian hostages. Israeli reporting claims that the use of this directive may have been responsible for a "large" amount of hostage casualties.

Despite official recognition of the "immense friendly fire", IDF also reports that they refuse further investigation because they believe it would be "immoral", so there is deliberate obfuscation at play.

>Israel’s army on Tuesday admitted that an “immense and complex quantity” of what it calls “friendly fire” incidents took place on 7 October.

>The key declaration was buried in the penultimate paragraph of an article by Yoav Zitun, the military correspondent of Israeli outlet Ynet.

>It is the first known official army admission that a significant number of the hundreds of Israelis who died on 7 October were killed by Israel itself, and not by Hamas or other Palestinian resistance factions.

>Citing new data released by the Israeli military, Zitun wrote that: “Casualties fell as a result of friendly fire on October 7, but the IDF [Israeli military] believes that … it would not be morally sound to investigate” them.

I went down the rabbit-hole trying to find out exactly what was said and meant. I don't consider Electronic Intifada a credible source (I mean, the bias is in the name!), but they are citing specific statements made by an Israeli army reporter.

That said, I think they (and you) are making things seem very different by the way in which you're quoting the statements. I wrote there are only a few known cases of friendly fire on civilians, and you wrote that the army thinks the number is "immense", which contradicts what I said.

Except, if you look at the context of that statement from the article, I think it doesn't actually contradict it. Here's the whole paragraph:

> Casualties fell as a result of friendly fire on October 7, but the IDF believes that beyond the operational investigations of the events, it would not be morally sound to investigate these incidents due to the immense and complex quantity of them that took place in the kibbutzim and southern Israeli communities due to the challenging situations the soldiers were in at the time.

The "immense and complex quantity" statement here refers to why the army says it's not morally sound to investigate the incidents. There could've been 100 incidents - e.g. 100 cases of cars bombed trying to cross back into Gaza, which may or may not have had hostages in them (which is I believe where the IDF supposedly invoked the "Hannibal doctrine").

A hundred potential incidents to investigate could absolutely qualify as someone saying there are an "immense number", while still only representing a tiny fraction of victims compared to the numbers we know for certain were killed by Hamas.

I honestly think that if your case hinges on the specific phrasing used to describe what someone from the IDF said, and which doesn't even necessarily prove anything - then your case is incredibly weak. This could've been a translation error (I couldn't find the original Hebrew version of this article), this could've been the reporter slightly exaggerating what they heard (even unknowingly), etc.

Do you have any other sources except for this? I'd love to see them.

Though again, let's be clear - there are already hundreds (possibly over a thousand?) known victims of Hamas that are verified. There might be some friendly-fire incidents too, but there are an incredibly large number that are absolutely known to have been killed by Hamas, many of which were captured on video by Hamas itself!

Trying to claim otherwise is just completely ignoring all real evidence in favor of conspiracy.

I just want to note one detail

> The "immense and complex quantity" statement here refers to why the army says it's morally sound to investigate the incidents.

The IDF says it is *not* morally sound to investigate the incidents

They have released their own data (without allowing third party investigation) on friendly fire for invasions after Oct 7, which they claim is 20% of casualties. They have not released evidence and refuse investigation of the casualties resulting from the "immense quantity" of "friendly fire" incidents on Oct 7.

> Almost a fifth of Israeli soldiers who died in Gaza were killed due to friendly fire, according to data released by the Israeli military, Israeli Ynet News reported on 12 December.

There is also IDF reporting on the use of helicopters:

> “The pilots realized that there was tremendous difficulty in distinguishing within the occupied outposts and settlements who was a terrorist and who was a soldier or civilian … The frequency of fire at the thousands of terrorists was enormous at the start, and only at a certain point did the pilots begin to slow their attacks and carefully choose the targets,” Israel’s Ynet reported last month, citing an Israeli air force investigation.

> “Shoot at everything,” one squadron leader reportedly told his men.

> A separate report published in Haaretz noted that the Israeli military was “compelled to request an aerial strike” against its own facility inside the Erez Crossing to Gaza “in order to repulse the terrorists” who had seized control. That base was filled with Israeli Civil Administration officers and soldiers at the time.

> According to Haaretz, the army was only able to restore control over Be’eri after admittedly “shelling” the homes of Israelis who had been taken captive. “The price was terrible: at least 112 Be’eri residents were killed,” the paper chronicled.

> Pilots have told Israeli media they scrambled to the battlefield without any intelligence, unable to differentiate between Hamas fighters and Israeli noncombatants, and yet determined to “empty the belly” of their war machines. “I find myself in a dilemma as to what to shoot at, because there are so many of them,” one Apache pilot commented.

And some Israeli witness accounts:

> An Israeli woman named Yasmin Porat confirmed in an interview with Israel Radio that the military “undoubtedly” killed numerous Israeli noncombatants during gun battles with Hamas militants on October 7. “They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” she stated, referring to Israeli special forces.

Yes, sorry, of course, I miswrote that. (I edited the comment.)

> They have released their own data (without allowing third party investigation) on friendly fire for invasions after Oct 7, which they claim is 20% of casualties. They have not released evidence and refuse investigation of the casualties resulting from the "immense quantity" of "friendly fire" incidents on Oct 7.

Again, I can understand that - since people have been insisting on propping up insane conspiracy theories that Hamas didn't actually do anything bad on October 7th. Ultimately I think it's a mistake, and not one that will be relevant anyway - investigations can happen one way or another. (Again, free press, free speech and all that.)

I added more of the Israeli-reported evidence above that you're welcome to dig into

Israel is a small country with very few degrees of separation between people.

The communities attacked are highly organized, hate the current government,somewhat critical of the establishment, and closely connected to the highest ranks in the IDF. Including some generals. And also connected to many of the fighters who were there on the ground.

There is absolutely zero chance that the army would kill many people and that it would be kept hidden from the families and the public in large.

Also, Hamas was not merely taking hostages, but spraying people with bullets and setting houses on fire with families in them. So your SWAT team dillema means nothing, as the army had no other option other then engaging with the enemy as fast as possible. The fact that in many places special forces were indeed sent to carefuly deal with hostage situations is being criticised as it may have wasted time in which the Hamas was killing more people, and people who were trapped in their homes got choked or burned.

The better strategy may have been to charge at the terrorists, as their numbers and whereabouts were unknown and while some were holding hostages others were still moving around in cars or by foot looking for hostages to take or victims to kill.

The only confirmed friendly fire case during October 7 that I personally read about was a tank that entered into a fire exchange with Hamas hostage takers.

40 terrorists and 15 hostages were surrounded in a house at Be'eri, Firing at IDF and police forces that surrounded the house.

After a failed negotiation in which the Hamas commander alone surrenderd with one hostage, fighting resumed.

The Hamas members were firing with guns and RPGs at the tank and nearby forces.

The Tank fired two shells at the house killing the terrorists and all but 1 of the remaining hostages.

This is the Hebrew wikipedia page about the battle. https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%AA_%D7%9...