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locallost ◴[] No.39148816[source]
My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin

Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246

Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important.

Quote:

"Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers."

And

"This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle."

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pgeorgi ◴[] No.39148909[source]
All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then?

Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7?

This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

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hypeit ◴[] No.39148950[source]
Israel must face the reality that is an apartheid state that exists on occupied land. There is no solution until that happens. Just like apartheid South Africa was dismantled, Israel has to face the same fate or forever be locked into warfare and oppressing Palestinians.
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lacker ◴[] No.39149282[source]
Isn't that exactly the view of reality that the Israeli right wing holds? They would agree that the choices are either dismantling the state of Israel, or eternal warfare. Since they don't want to dismantle the state of Israel, they elect for eternal warfare.

It's funny how on some questions, the most extreme people on both sides agree on the answer. Hamas and the Israeli right wing both agree that the only viable solution is for one ethnic group to control all the land from the river to the sea.

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hypeit[dead post] ◴[] No.39149326[source]
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kansface ◴[] No.39149864[source]
The charter of Hamas explicitly calls for the eradication of the state of Israel, the death of presumably all Jews, Muslim rule of all of Palestine, the explicit rejection of peace or any negotiated settlement (with explicit condemnation of the Camp David Accords), and Jihad as individual duty in order to achieve the aforementioned goals.
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krainboltgreene[dead post] ◴[] No.39150482[source]
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tptacek ◴[] No.39151376[source]
Hamas has repeatedly refused to disavow the original charter, and, of course, their actions on October 7 certainly affirm it.
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krainboltgreene[dead post] ◴[] No.39152262[source]
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tptacek ◴[] No.39152367[source]
They killed 1200 people, most of them civilians, raped dozens (at least), filmed murders and posted those videos to the victims Facebook pages. I am, in this one instance, comfortable with the application of Cancel Culture.

There is no advocacy one can pursue more antithetical to the cause of Palestinian human rights than to cheerlead for Hamas.

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1. krainboltgreene ◴[] No.39153103[source]
This comment is in bad faith, it is attempting to paint my retort as cheerleading for Hamas despite the actual content of my comment. You can do better than this, maybe.
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2. tptacek ◴[] No.39153135[source]
I think it's a pair of relatively straightforward and banal observations and you have a choice about how personally you want to take them. You can simply say nothing, and reasonable people might reasonably assume that you of course repudiate Hamas wholesale. I'm happy to do so as well.

At the point in which I entered the thread, there was some dispute as to the intent and good faith of Hamas itself. All I care about is that we establish that no such good faith exists. Your own personal beliefs are not something I feel the need to litigate.