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voisin ◴[] No.39143281[source]
Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.
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AdamH12113 ◴[] No.39146736[source]
> ... the Jewish state... its people experienced...

This is your error. States and peoples are not unitary entities with a single coherent outlook and will. The vast majority of the Israeli population is far too young to have directly experienced the Holocaust, which ended 80 years ago. There are plenty of people in Israel who do not want to commit atrocities against Palestinians. There are also people who feel that they have a (literally) god-given right to occupy the territories where Palestinians currently live. If you think of Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet as being basically the same people who survived Nazi concentration camps in World War 2, then nothing Israel is doing in 2024 will make much sense.

To my mind, Israel's actions toward Palestinians (both in Gaza and the West Bank) are powerful evidence that nationalism inherently leads to atrocity no matter who's involved. If the cultural memory of being targeted by the Holocaust won't stop an ethno-state from setting up an apartheid regime, what will?

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tptacek ◴[] No.39148098[source]
It's under-remarked on, but for a majority of Israeli Jewish people, the nakba era might have more immediate salience than the Holocaust. That's because they're not, as the popular imagination has it, all colonists from Europe; they're the Jewish people of the Middle East and North Africa, all of whom were forcefully expelled from their own homes after 1948.

There's no question that the Holocaust has enormous salience to Israeli Jewish people. But if you trace your roots to rural Arab Jewish families from Yemen or Iraq, your more immediate concern would be your own family's immediate viability in a world without Israel. A new rise of European fascism wouldn't be your problem; the fact that you'd have literally no place to go would be. You're sure as shit not moving back to Yemen.

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CapricornNoble[dead post] ◴[] No.39150530{3}[source]
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tobiasdorge ◴[] No.39150707{4}[source]
> That the MENA nations who expelled their minority Jewish populations did so in a vacuum

How does something occurring in Palestine justify this? Tying the actions of Jewish militias to your local Jewish population is antisemitic… if they expelled them to protest the creation of Israel, then that isn’t anti-Zionist. That they mostly all ended up going to Israel is ironically supporting the Zionist cause

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hbt[dead post] ◴[] No.39150894{5}[source]
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1. tptacek ◴[] No.39150950{6}[source]
This is a frankly antisemitic argument. "Dual loyalties" is practically the kernel of all antisemitism.
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2. tptacek ◴[] No.39151424[source]
No, I don't think questioning the allegiance of pogrom victims is a good play.
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3. hbt ◴[] No.39151466{3}[source]
No, there were no reports of a pogrom against Jews in Egypt in 1956. However, during the Suez Crisis in the same year, some Jewish individuals faced increased tensions and discrimination. Many Jews eventually left Egypt, but it wasn't a pogrom in the traditional sense.
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4. pvg ◴[] No.39152181{4}[source]
In the context of a discussion about potential crimes against humanity, an argument that ethnic cleansing is sometimes ok feels particularly unconvincing.