←back to thread

388 points replyifuagree | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
throwaway091ba ◴[] No.37965914[source]
Whenever this estimation question comes up, developers rarely put themselves in the shoes of the business side, and try to understand why there needs to be an estimate, and why shorter is always better than longer. What they do instead, is try to protect their holy land of software development, and exacerbate the differences between engineers and "the others" - sarcasm and cynisism usually shine through at this time, and that's how you end up with unrealistic estimations.

I've been a developer, PO, manager, director, CTO, the whole thing. I'm still shocked by how most (not all, but most) developers are simply too disconnected from the reality that, yes, they do need to provide value, and yes, that value does have a time factor. Lucky are we as developers, that people actually ASK us how long it will take, and give us the opportunity to explain it, push back, and actually defend your estimates. The sad reality (at least from 90% of my career), is that developers are rarely able to actually engage in business-level conversations, and actually express their thoughts/ideas/concerns/proposals, in a way that it drives the conversation forward. In a way that helps PMs and managers actually see the complexities of the work, and engage in healthy cost/benefit discussions.

replies(16): >>37966013 #>>37966021 #>>37966029 #>>37966072 #>>37966099 #>>37966181 #>>37966182 #>>37966229 #>>37966278 #>>37966291 #>>37966455 #>>37966467 #>>37966730 #>>37967486 #>>37968163 #>>37968624 #
Aeolun ◴[] No.37966181[source]
What a weird thing to say. If you ask me how long it takes to grow a baby, and I say, 9 months. Am I not cooperating with the business when you want it in 6?

No amount of effort on either your or my part is going to make the baby appear faster.

replies(4): >>37966348 #>>37966426 #>>37966520 #>>37966932 #
mmcnl ◴[] No.37966520[source]
That's a bad analogy. Managing expectations is very rarely absolute or binary thing.
replies(1): >>37970763 #
1. Aeolun ◴[] No.37970763[source]
If you can start asking questions like “do we actually need a baby”, “what are the specifications for hair color and nose length”, “does it need to be a human baby”, “how about we start at an embryo instead” etc. the whole equation changes. But most people asking for the estimate aren’t actually interested in providing any of that information.

They want to give you a vaguely defined blob of half finished specifications, and expect a perfectly accurate assessment of the time it will take, and also to be able to change the vaguely defined blob as they go along without effect on the given estimate.