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388 points replyifuagree | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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nmstoker ◴[] No.37966119[source]
I get the point, and with irresponsible parties (as is fairly widespread in most companies) there's a real risk here.

However the analogy of a meteorologist seems poor as that job is focused on predicting the weather - the typical dev is focused on operating in that weather and comparatively inexperienced in predicting with great accuracy.

What's frustrating as a stakeholder is ludicrous estimates, which don't even start with the work time, let alone end up with a realistic duration. This is particularly true (and frustrating) at the micro task level, an area I'm often requiring items that take at most 30 minute to complete and are usually things I could do in less time if only I had access... You get a weeks long estimate back, even when it's incurring a serious cost in production and falls in the drop everything category (which obviously one wants to avoid but does come up). I get that none of those 30 minute tasks will take 30 minute alone as there's testing and documentation to add but the more bs level the estimate, the more it damages the trust relationship.

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regularfry ◴[] No.37966194[source]
I think there's an important detail you might have left out of your 30 minute example: are you asking for how long the effort on the specific task will take, or what the time gap will be between right now and the moment it's delivered? Because in almost all teams both are dominated by the task waiting for something, but in the latter case it's especially true. Actual hands-on-keyboard time is usually a rounding error compared to coordination and scheduling. Unless a team has put hard work into unintuitive ways of working, the average ticket will spend grossly more time waiting than actually being worked on. Not only that, but the team will be completely blind to the imbalance, and won't realise it matters.
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1. Groxx ◴[] No.37968574[source]
Yeah, the 30 minute tasks would more frequently be quick if there was room for them.

You can have agile flexibility or you can have lists of tasks that you have attempted to minmax that people are tracked to finish. Not both. Flexibility costs significant down time, if you're not being given it then you're not being allowed to be flexible.

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2. Mc91 ◴[] No.37969139[source]
Correct. If management told our team that our performance was based on getting 2-3 planned features out this quarter, and we've been minmaxed to fill our schedules, and there's a hiring freeze and one team member just left - then we have no room for some "30 minute" (which is much more than 30 minutes for us) request. Also, management has told us that our performance reviews are based on whether we got these 2-3 planned features done within a very aggressive schedule, not your "30 minute" request - so it is management who has said this is of minimal importance, not us.
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4. regularfry ◴[] No.37976462[source]
This is really a case of over-utilisation. If you want a 30 minute task to be reliably out of the door in a time that's even of the same order of magnitude, the team has to be operating at 80% utilisation or less which, if it's the usual story of The Backlog That Never Ends, happens approximately never.