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341 points hlandau | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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liquidk ◴[] No.37962482[source]
The provider has access to the host, they can just inspect the job from the outside and you won’t be able to tell
replies(3): >>37962632 #>>37962862 #>>37963439 #
the8472 ◴[] No.37962632[source]
secure boot + virtualized memory encryption is supposed to prevent that, you'll have to trust intel/amd though.
replies(4): >>37962858 #>>37963072 #>>37963119 #>>37963152 #
1. OmarAssadi ◴[] No.37963072[source]
I'm not sure truly verifiable "Secure" Boot is actually realistic in most scenarios, though, right?

I'm not super up-to-date on what's being offered right now, but I'm not sure if there is a way to have a proper trusted execution environment on most Intel or AMD offerings; I thought Secure Boot on AMD64 platforms generally rely on TPM or something like SGX for validation, with the former having seemingly a dozen different ways to be tampered with, and the latter being discontinued and being vulnerable to several different attacks, including DOWNFALL.

I think EPYC and Sapphire Rapids have some sort of Trusted Execution Environment stuff with SEV-SNP and TDX, maybe? But I don't think either option is really feasible for people paying Hetzner-like prices for hosting; Hetzner's newest Xeon offering is seemingly Cascade Lake, and the only EPYC offered is a single-socket Rome 7502P with 128GB DDR4 for 142 euros, which seems very hard to justify, given they also offer a 7950X3D with 128GB DDR5 for ~25 euros less.

Even then, I don't think I could put my confidence in a machine I don't own, didn't setup, can't physically inspect, don't know where it came from, whether the firmware has been tampered with, etc -- especially if it is something as complex as x86, where there is seemingly at least one new horrific hardware-level vulnerability that crops up every generation or two.

EDIT: I forgot Hetzner also started offering Ampere Altra servers for 200 euros. I think those have TEE of some sort with the TrustZone stuff?

Not sure how secure that really is, though; I haven't really looked into the ARM offerings as much as I should have, mostly since, if you don't want Apple, I'm not aware of a good middle-ground between a cheap SBC and a $3,000+ Ampere server, outside of jerry-rigging some second-hand Gigabyte Cavium ThunderX2 nodes off eBay.